Mastering Multi-Company Leadership: Sean Delaney's Secrets to Authentic and Effective CEO Performance

[00:00:00] Now, the question you might be asking yourself is could you run two companies? You've got one humming along nicely and you're thinking, oh, Elon Musk can run more than one company. Richard Branson runs more than one company. So can I. Well, my guest today is a CEO of

[00:00:19] several companies at the same time. And he's pretty doing a much better job, to be honest, in terms of shareholder value than a couple of those people I've mentioned before. His name is Sean Delaney and he's running a company out of New Jersey called What If.

[00:00:33] Sean, welcome to the show. Thank you so much, Jim. I am excited to be here. Well, I'm excited to have you here and thank you because, you know, I know that you had

[00:00:41] a personal loss and it's a sign of who you are that you've come on the show anyway. We could talk about making commitments and the importance of that integrity to the

[00:00:53] role of being a CEO when we come on to that. We're going to talk about fear and what that means for CEOs and how you are taking yourself from one business to the next and adding value

[00:01:06] to each of those companies without necessarily trying to change the culture of each of those companies and letting other people play a role in the growth as well. So we've got a few things to touch on. We're also going to then talk about clarity

[00:01:18] You've got a gift at the end for everybody. So I want to stay around and get the gift on it's a free download you're going to offer on clarity, right? It's a juicy one too, yeah.

[00:01:30] I would expect nothing less from you Sean. So Sean, how do you do it? Tell us the companies you're involved with and then tell us, you know, how do you break the maxim because when I

[00:01:44] ran two companies in Singapore, my accountant said very wisely, better to have one company run well than two companies run badly. And I proved him right actually that I was able to I ran two companies badly. You're breaking them also Sean, tell us the companies you're involved

[00:02:03] with and what do you have to do to run two companies or more successfully? Yeah, great question. So the two companies that we're going to talk about are we have What If which is a consultancy for entrepreneurs and how to go scale further faster, funner, purposefully

[00:02:26] written poorly. And then the other one is BevGraph packaging. So look at that one fun name What If we're challenging convention and the other one BevGraph packaging international, which is a company making the world's first biodegradable recyclable, but biodegradable food

[00:02:46] packaging to take plastics out of the ocean. What so divergent? How can I wear both those hats? It's essentially what what the question is. And the second one sounds like a sort of a CIA cover business doesn't it really? With a name like that.

[00:03:03] Wristed in Panama. So Sean, how do you do and I've got for anyone that wants to look at the YouTube channel I've got the What If and that's WHA and then it's an upside down question mark.

[00:03:15] That must give people all sorts of trouble when it comes to typing. It does. Well, this is how we say what if in New Jersey it's what if with a D right? That's what you're saying. But the D is for disruption because we like to disrupt

[00:03:28] people's thinking on the 10 fundamental disciplines that every business needs to deal with. But it's also a question mark because yes, we turn questions upside down. Questions are how we learn. Questions are having that if I asked you today, Jim, if I were a genie and I

[00:03:46] could give you absolute total recall on everything you've ever learned, heard, thought or understood. But you could learn nothing more from today going forward. Or if I could totally wipe your memory, I'll let you remember who you took to the prom and who

[00:04:07] you married and the names of your children. But we're going to take you set it a zero. But I'm going to give you the power to always be able to ask the best question to find the

[00:04:19] information you need. You would take that 100% the second one all day every day, right? Yeah, well, I think fatherhood made me lose a lot of my earlier memories anyway. Anyone that's been up in the middle of the night, tunneling across the young children will know

[00:04:35] that they kind of erase parts of your memory. But you're right. So asking the right questions is a key skill as an entrepreneur, right? What does the market need? What do my team need?

[00:04:45] What do I do better? 100%. And to do that, that puts you in, if you know that your chief responsibility or one of your chief responsibilities running anything is to ask good questions,

[00:04:58] then that puts you in a state of I don't know everything. And I am connecting with people and I am open to new ways of thinking, new paradigms, new thought. It immediately puts you in a better

[00:05:12] place than anybody who comes in thinking they have all the answers or thinking that as a CEO, they have to have all the answers because that is not true. And that's part of what sets people up

[00:05:25] to die in the grind to feel like I always have to be something I'm not. I always have to put on a front. I have to have all these answers. I have to, have to, have to, have to. And that's

[00:05:35] just not true. And I think that's so, yeah. And very liberating actually the thought that as a CEO, your job isn't to know all the answers, but maybe to ask the best questions, right? And is that part of your secret

[00:05:48] to moving from one company to the next and adding value at the same time to multiple places? Yes. Early in my career, I had the benefit of having a boss and mentor who was, he was an ex-navy

[00:06:03] seal. He was a nuclear engineer. He was multidisciplinary and just brilliant off the charts. And he hired me into MetLife. I didn't know anything about insurance, but what he liked was I was a recovering lawyer. I was an ex-standup comedian. I

[00:06:23] made a name for myself in the realm of HR. I knew a whole bunch of different, and I understood process management, whole bunch of things. He said, I love tools like this. I love things that,

[00:06:35] I love the Swiss Army knife of people. And he knew that I leaned into that. So they brought me into fix one of their divisions. I said, but I don't know anything about disability

[00:06:45] insurance. And he said, yeah, you know who does? An entire department of people over here know everything there is to know about it and they can't get it right. What you know

[00:06:54] is how to distill things down to the essence of what they are. These are my words now, not his in reflection. You know how to find the root of what it is and you know how to

[00:07:02] talk to people and you know how to get to the answer. Irregardless of egos and what should be and what you're being told, just get down to what it is and fix it. So I did that.

[00:07:15] And then he said, okay, you've done that. We're expanding your purview. Now you're going to go and be, we were internal consultants fixing big intractable problems for you. Now I'm

[00:07:24] going to expand your purview and you're going to go help dental. And I said, but I don't know the first thing about dental insurance. He said, well, what the hell do you know about disability?

[00:07:30] He said, nothing. He said, yeah, get over there. What you know is what they don't. How to unscrew up what they've screwed up just because they've been there forever and they're buying into whatever they're being told about the state of the world. That's just

[00:07:45] not true. And then by the time they said, now we're expanding your life insurance, they said, well, I don't know. Okay, I know I get it. I get it. Just bring what I know and I'll figure that out.

[00:07:55] And then I realized that as I started then going out on my own as a consultant working with other big companies, Nike, Nike, Uber, J&J, I found out that shoes are pills, are advice, are restauranting, are manufacturing. It doesn't matter because all business

[00:08:18] distilled down to what it is as people in a value exchange. I'm giving value to you. You're giving value to me. It might be commercialized through a proxy of money for the value, but that's all it is. And if we're giving more value to people than we're

[00:08:34] taking and we're open and honest and being integrous through who we are in the world, magic happens. Harmony happens. No one wants a disharmonious system, a workplace. I know if we

[00:08:50] think about business as a machine, then we get into the cogs and the wheels and we lose the essence of what it is and people show up not as themselves because they are towing some kind

[00:09:02] of corporate image that they need to follow. And things just feel disharmonious and that's where the grind comes. Oh, I got to go to work or oh, I created this machine and now it's killing me.

[00:09:14] Well as an entrepreneur you built something beautiful with a mission in the world. Why is it hard? That's just the way business is. No, it isn't. No, it is not. You're not lining all of the things that we all know as humans as true in the world

[00:09:34] in your business because you're chasing something. You're chasing an image of, well, they don't act like that at Nike. Yeah, but Nike's been around forever and it's a machine, it's a monolith. It's not in many ways true to the world. It's become its own thing,

[00:09:49] its own culture, its own world and either you fit in or not. But if you can't be truly who you are then maybe that model is not right for you. I'm not casting aspersions at Nike or any

[00:09:58] other big business. I'm just saying we all know that there's some institutionalized nonsense that happens there. There's waste, there's grind, there's friction and it's just accepted because those are big businesses. It doesn't have to be that way. Okay, so as you go in to a company

[00:10:19] and you have this idea that there needs to be alignment between who you believe you are and how you show up. Shaun is kind of on the show, he had a bereavement in the family

[00:10:32] even just yesterday but he's still showing up today. That's the measure of who you are and obviously your family have given you the space as well which says a lot about

[00:10:42] how your relationship works there. Thank you. When you go into a company or you welcome, when you go into a company as a CEO of a business, how do you deal with the expectation that the co-founders

[00:10:57] might have or the other members of the team that you're not there all the time because my experience of being a CEO is people, they kind of expect you to be like a

[00:11:05] sometimes a bit like a parent figure and being sort of a stepdad is not, doesn't always go down so well, does it? So how do you reconcile that expectation for permanence with the requirement

[00:11:20] for being temporary? We'll be back after a quick break. Would you like to double your salary without starting another business? The easy way to do this is to join the board of another company.

[00:11:36] You get well paid for a part-time role, you get all the credibility that comes with being a board member plus you get to hang out with some very cool people and learn how other businesses are

[00:11:45] dealing with their problems. If you'd like to know more, if you'd like to learn how you get your first board seat within 60 days just click on the link below as unnoticed is a gold sponsor

[00:11:55] of our summit so you get free tickets. Enjoy. I'll see you there. Yeah. Well, so wow, we can unpack that for hours but I would say these are all big questions. We don't have that

[00:12:12] to answer. I think the short answer is we do have an architecture. So I know people are some, we've talked about this, you and I, that people might be framework out but for me having an

[00:12:27] architecture that says, look here's the 20% of these things that must exist that are important and we're not going to do the 80% because it's nonsense and it doesn't feel right and it doesn't get us anywhere. And so the 20% of strategic planning for example, now what is strategic

[00:12:45] planning? At its essence it's just how do we navigate when I'm not here? So how do we navigate when I'm not here? Because I as we is us, we're a team and so I have to first make sure that

[00:12:58] everybody has core value alignment. And so if I know that you, Jim and I have core value alignment down to our bones and you also believe in the same mission that I believe in

[00:13:13] and you've bought into the vision that we have that we've set together for the future it's very hard for you to screw things up whether I'm here or not because if we didn't have a process

[00:13:27] for it, we didn't have a procedure for it. This just happened. What do we do? Sean just lost his father-in-law. Do we cancel him being on the podcast or do we let him do it? Will we let him do

[00:13:37] it? Why? Well, because we all believe that our mission doesn't change because life has because if who I'm going to show up as in the world is dependent on what's going on in my life,

[00:13:49] then I'm playing some kind of game. I'm playing a role. But if I am who I am and my mission is to do everything I can to help entrepreneurs at all time everywhere and my clients, people who listen

[00:14:03] to me, the people in my community believe that and then I don't show up today, they say, well, that's disharmonious. That's he's not showing up as who he is. He said he would do all things.

[00:14:16] Now I didn't say I'd fake it. So I said to you before the show, hey, if I break down crying in the middle because you say something that reminds me of my father-in-law and we're just going to

[00:14:24] roll with it because I'm being honest, authentic. And if that happened, I bet people would say, let's see me as weak or some nut job. They'd say, wow, the guy just lost somebody

[00:14:37] very close to him. Oh, here it goes. No, I'm not going to break down. But here's the guy who just lost somebody very close to him and yet he's still here. Why? Well, I know why because he

[00:14:49] frequently says and does that he is going to do whatever he can to help entrepreneurs build their dream because 10 people today in the hour that we're spending together today, 10 people could hear this, change their companies and affect how many people could they employ?

[00:15:07] Hundreds of lives. Wouldn't my father-in-law want that? I'm going to go and do that because it's who I am. And so I think that's a big freedom that entrepreneurs should hear that as the CEO, you don't have to be a thing that is manufactured and polished.

[00:15:24] Yes, there's certain things that you need to do and you need to strive. If you say, well, I'm a person who doesn't care about people, okay, well, you could be authentic and you're not going

[00:15:35] to have many people working for you but okay because if you say that you care and you don't, you're going to show up in ways that people see you're inauthenticity and they're not going to follow you. You show up authentically, people will walk on water for you.

[00:15:53] Now, we've talked about the two entirely different kind of companies and you've been very open and honest about what you've got going on in your emotional life and also the importance of authenticity through your behavior. Cultures and businesses are different because your co-founders will have

[00:16:16] maybe the same mission and values but they probably got different education backgrounds, different personal circumstances, maybe financially in different places as well. Interpretations of events will be different according to culture and so on. How do you balance

[00:16:34] that, you know, Sean, when you are going into an effect like two homes, right? You've got two partners and they're maybe both homes and they're both aimed towards serving the clients and taking care of their staff and looking after shareholders where there are but they

[00:16:50] will have different cultures. How do you enable the two co-founders to feel equally in charge of the culture so it can be sustained when you're gone and have different cultures? Yeah, so the way that I can bounce between and have clarity between all of it is

[00:17:14] again, it's that the architecture that I'm talking about, the harmonious architecture is touching on the 10 things that are true everywhere. So while they have different... You better tell us what there's 10 are, you better give us a quick rundown but we've only got

[00:17:27] another 10 minutes so we won't get all 10 in. But we won't get all 10 but I will say... Things like navigation which is how are we strategically planning things? So core values, mission and vision. Got it. How do we operate? This is project management. Now that we know

[00:17:42] who we are and what we're trying to do in the world, how do we start to run the race? We planned it but how do we start to run? How do we move and how do we allocate our limited

[00:17:51] time, energy resources in a very specific laser like way? And we're going to limit the number of projects we're going to do that are based on the most important metrics that we have to move. Serenity, this is the essence of when people say why time management?

[00:18:07] Time management. You don't really manage time any more than somebody guiding a kayak down a river manages the river. It flows independent of you, you cannot stop it,

[00:18:18] it is a limited thing and it moves so how do you allocate that in a way that makes you more serene? So many people come to me, so many entrepreneurs and they say I'm killing myself, I need more time

[00:18:29] and then we have to unpack that because there's four buckets that every issue that entrepreneurs fall into and you can parse them there and then figure out what people

[00:18:39] are really getting at but we can get into that if you want. So those are like the top three of the harmonious but it's change management, how do we do it? We call it modify. It's analyze,

[00:18:50] that's metrics, you need to have your right metrics but metrics just are numbers. The essence of it is how do we analyze it so that we know what we're looking at and can make decisions based on it. There's people management, we have people dynamics,

[00:19:07] no one does anything alone. I break that up into two things because management and leadership are two different things. The essence of leadership is inspiration because leadership implies me getting others to do something whereas inspiration is how do I get myself out of bed and show up

[00:19:26] and be the leader and then how do I get you to want to be your best and give your best to the mission? That's inspiration, that's better than leadership and then instead of

[00:19:36] management we call it home. That's the H in harmonious which is humans optimized in a meaningful environment meaning how do I make sure that Jim can be the best Jim he can be? Knowing the mission

[00:19:49] vision and core values so you know where we're going, I've given you all the tools, I've optimized you and making it a meaningful environment so that you know I'm not here to just pull a lever

[00:19:58] for a certain number of hours and get a paycheck. No this place means something to me. I spent an enormous amount of time here with these co-workers and how can I take my job and directly

[00:20:10] be able to tie it to the effect of having in the world for our mission because that's why I joined this place right? Not for a paycheck for the mission. That's just a smattering of the tent,

[00:20:19] everybody has to deal with them and optimize them and we disrupt on because you know there's whole disciplines and volumes of books written on all those things but they're over complicating something and not really getting it down to the essence of what it is.

[00:20:34] And Sean I think also it's impressive you've got an anagram out of harmonious and you managed to get a letter for each one of these that in itself is brilliant but also part of the takeaway

[00:20:47] there is that if you go into an organization as the co-CEO or fractional CEO or part-time that really you are a coach helping to put in place values and giving people confidence that they can be authentic but you're not there to do the work for them right?

[00:21:06] No. And you're like the coach on the sidelines watching people play on the pitch, you're not out there trying to kick the ball for them so that means that you can be the CEO of many companies if you see yourself as coach rather than as striker right?

[00:21:25] And I've given myself permission to be able to go into a room and say, hey finance people what's the answer? And they said well you don't know? No I don't know if I knew I didn't need you

[00:21:35] I need you because you're brilliant at that. I don't want to be brilliant at that. I could, could I learn it? I could. I don't want to go to medical school. I went to law

[00:21:43] school so I didn't have to go to medical school. I could probably figure it out. Don't worry doc I'll figure it out. No I'd rather go to a good doctor and trust that they're going

[00:21:49] to have the answer and I know what questions to ask them. I know what the mission is. I know what the vision is and he and I are aligned on my health goals. Tell me what the answer is

[00:22:00] and that's it you have to be able to trust but because I have that framework it doesn't matter the culture because the culture is just a mix of the people and personalities combined with

[00:22:12] the mission it's a it's a it's a flavoring but we still need strategic planning. We still need project management. We still need to make sure that people are allocating their time correctly

[00:22:22] on and on and on. Those things exist everywhere so I would laugh when people would say well sure you work with Nike but what can you tell us here at J&J? Say well wait a minute do you have

[00:22:35] people trying to do something in the world? Yes. Yeah no I'm good we'll figure it out. Well things don't work that way around here. Yeah but they do. If I get people in a room and

[00:22:49] I talk to them long enough we're all going to be on the same page because we're going to strip down all the stuff that you're layering on here that's complicating things you don't have

[00:22:57] to have that. Good we get down to the human condition don't we? Yes. Of pressure and some. What about with the brand building for Wadiff because you're on this show I'm also interested

[00:23:09] in you as an entrepreneur. Yes. What you're doing you've got a partner in Brandon who's actually also been on the show and fantastic. He is fantastic. He is fantastic you're lucky. I told him you're lucky as well so you're both lucky but what about marketing is there

[00:23:27] some sort of piece of advice because with your background now for many many years working in corporate and with entrepreneurs a piece of advice that you give people on the marketing

[00:23:39] side short Delaney that you find you need to go into every company and say this is really one piece that's common to everybody. Yeah so oh man I was going to say one thing and then I thought

[00:23:54] there's five things but I'll tell you I thought I just narrow you down into one thing with the time. Yeah you're trying but I'm fighting it so I understand I'm difficult. So

[00:24:10] so I would say around marketing a mistake that I made was trying to be all things to everyone and then having clients are not in alignment. You know I mean if I'm trying to talk about

[00:24:22] well I don't want to say certain things about leadership in case that upset certain people who think they are good leaders I'll get them in first and then we'll work on that later.

[00:24:32] Well if they're not ready to hear it and they're not the kind of person that is the kind of leader that we can change it's going to be an uphill battle the whole time and I'm not

[00:24:39] I don't have the time to waste doing that I want people who are ready to listen and to change and to understand and so yeah is that going to turn off a ton of people?

[00:24:50] Massively so you want that. It's the same way when you're writing a job description people say well I can't write it that way because I won't get as many applicants. Well how many applicants do

[00:25:00] you want? A thousand? That sounds horrible. Yeah I would rather five right ideally one and then the perfect one but let me get five so write it a different way. I had a good friend who

[00:25:11] was doing online dating and he was having all these horrible dates and I said well let me look at your profile and I looked at it and he said who the hell is this? He's like well what do you mean?

[00:25:19] I go who is this person? I don't know what this is he goes well that's the person most attractive to all these ladies. I go yeah you haven't had a good date since let me rewrite it for the

[00:25:29] piece of garbage you are saying it lovingly as one of my close friends. From a nice place an authentic place yep. I wrote it I rewrote it for him now he is married to the person

[00:25:39] that he found because it was in alignment did he turn off a lot of women? He turned off a lot of women I love saying that about him he turned off a lot of women but he found the one

[00:25:50] because he was being authentic and clear and then so the second thing about and I'll leave it there about branding is that once you forget the message of the people that you are talking to I mean

[00:26:06] if you're not protecting your core which is this is who we said we are and this is how we show up once you deviate from that you can have you can destroy a business

[00:26:17] just look at Bud Light and let's not get political odds as to whether they were right with what they did or wrong with it doesn't matter what matters is they had a brand they were talking to a

[00:26:27] certain people to certain people who thought like that brand thought and then they radically changed it and expected everyone to come with them that's not how it works instead they left

[00:26:39] and so just think about who did we say we are who are we being and be that and if truly things have changed so much that you need to move and just do it but no that the people who bought into your

[00:26:52] brand promise now feel violated and may walk. Yeah I guess we had the same with the apple with the latest iPad ad we didn't we where they're actually crushing all the creative instruments rather than enhancing which is a classic example of what you're talking about where

[00:27:10] it was inauthentic as an advert right and you say well and you say well what just happened I expected you to be this I expect you said you were this is what I bought into yeah the products

[00:27:20] yes the products but I'm buying more than the product everyone is we're always buying more than the product we're buying that feeling because it's still a proxy Nike's a proxy for for you right for a person because it's value exchange between individuals and so we expect

[00:27:40] the people on the other side of the phone doesn't matter what insurance company we call we expect them to be compassionate and if and if because the brand probably says that they are

[00:27:49] and if they're not because what is this oh I hate big companies yeah right because big companies lose the soul they're people and and we need to show up authentically so yeah well as

[00:28:02] you have done Sean D'Lenni now Sean um you know about this sort of stage I asked for a number one tip that you would give a fellow entrepreneur can you can you share something that you now

[00:28:18] would would sort of believe is your mantra we've talked quite a lot about authenticity for example but is there anything else around that yeah if it's number one if it's the number one tip we

[00:28:28] kind of touched on it already it is just to forever put your place in don't be afraid to ask good questions you're not going to seem foolish in fact frequently I will say

[00:28:41] okay I'm going to ask a lot of really dumb question right it was one of the first things I asked when I got when I went into the room and they started describing disability insurance and

[00:28:49] all it's in all its forms and functions they said hold on let me back you up now what's insurance and they all laughed but I said no I'm really asking you what is it and they were like well

[00:29:01] don't we have bigger fish no I want you to define it for me like I'm like I'm an idiot because I am and again they all laughed and then they described it and it was fascinating how people described

[00:29:12] it differently and I said okay we're already seeing that we're maybe not all on the same page and you get into it and no one thought I was foolish I built a career on being well he's

[00:29:22] going to come in and say okay so what are we talking about what are we trying to do are we all on the same page and just ask those questions even if I thought I knew the answer because in them

[00:29:33] the mucking and grinding around through it and me being the most vulnerable person in the room saying never I see how many executives you've seen nodding and a screen with a nonsense chart

[00:29:45] up there and you know that they don't know how to decipher it they don't know what the bars mean but they don't want to though the emperor has no clothes they don't want to ask the questions and I'd be

[00:29:55] the one that would raise my hand and say that chart looks cool what is what's the difference between red and blue and then you see everyone else would start to ask good questions too because I

[00:30:07] asked the dumbest one and now I gave space for more questions and guess who was the most powerful person in that room Jim me person asking the question so I've got one last question for you

[00:30:18] because we're running out of time I'm afraid it's a a book or a podcast you'd recommend and then we're going to do the the link to the giveaway so what's your book so if we're talking about disruptive

[00:30:33] marketing ideas when a book that really stuck with me is made to stick by Chip and Dan here okay wonderful so that that's Chip and Dan sounds like a can of an ice cream doesn't it but

[00:30:47] Chip and Dan Heath and I'll have Chip and Dan Heath crunch please yeah so that sounds like I was at my Heath bars isn't it um we've got here at what if we've got the business architecture

[00:31:02] this is what are you offering here for listeners Sean and so so there was a diagnostic I used to use for the fortune 100 that takes 10 minutes 10 minutes to take it's very simple you answer a

[00:31:17] bunch of it's you say yes or no to a bunch of diagnostic questions and it gives you a window into where you are with the 10 fundamental disciplines and tells you what to do for each

[00:31:27] of them to move from where you are to where you want to be free and there's a three video series three video modules that come with that that explain what it is you're looking at why it's powerful and how to apply that into your business.

[00:31:46] Sean Delaney thanks for explaining so many things we've covered today especially considering your personal circumstances Sean Delaney if you want to find out more where do they go to get you

[00:31:57] so they can go to what if dot com that's w h a d as we talk if dot com and uh we're there there's links to my own our own podcast called the ether and uh our community and the diagnostic and all

[00:32:13] things us thank you for being all things us with me today so ladies and gentlemen we've been listening to Sean Delaney the multiple uh sort of CEO talking about how he can be CEO of more

[00:32:28] than one company and really about helping coach in other companies the authenticity and the leadership and the vulnerability but the key point is to ask great questions and not be afraid of what other people think because in asking the questions you're moving the whole conversation forward for

[00:32:44] everybody in the company so if you've got any questions for me please do put them in the chat also now with Buzzsprout you can actually send an SMS uh on the player and it comes to me so that's

[00:32:55] an innovation from the Buzzsprout people so do send me a message I'd love to hear from you and in the meantime until we meet again please leave a review Sean's got his finger pointed

[00:33:05] do you want to say something Jim I've done hundreds of podcasts this is one of the best interviews I've ever done so anybody listening stick around with this man he's doing wonderful

[00:33:15] things in the world mate you're very kind and by the way I did not pay or ask Sean there is no bribery if you ask if you paid me I wouldn't have done it

[00:33:28] and with that we'll say thank you for listening and until we meet again just keep on communicating