Should you make your interviewer laugh, and when a doctor freezes on the mic what happens next?

Alex Greenwood: 0:00

People learn by storytelling, people, especially learn, by hearing about other people's mistakes or about funny things. So if you can find some entertaining anecdotes get your point across and tell a story here there's a couple of things that going to happen. One, you're going to have more fun, you're going to get more engagement from the reporter or the host or the producer, you're going to get your point across and guess what? You'll probably get asked back.

Jim James: 0:23

Hello and Welcome to this episode of the unnoticed show. I'm very lucky to have Alex Greenwood joining me all the way from Missouri, Alex. Hi, how are you doing

Alex Greenwood: 0:32

Jim. I'm wonderful. Wonderful. And where are you at? In a garden shed somewhere. And what's going on there?

Jim James: 0:37

I'm

Alex Greenwood: 0:37

in

Jim James: 0:37

the Tardis. Okay. Time and relative dimension in space, otherwise known as shared radio, Alex. Yeah. It's it's not glamorous, but it is cozy. I'm here with Binky. so if you hear snoring, it's not me. It's the beagle by my side, but Alex, you're going to keep us all awake. I know because you are a PR guy, you're an author. You also have two podcasts and you I are going to talk about something that you've just written about, which is how to be a good guest. can we just talk about your background very briefly, but if someone's unnoticed, Alex, how can they use a podcast or an into the media to get noticed?

Alex Greenwood: 1:14

I'll spare you all the boring stuff about me other than to say former journalist, I've been doing PR for about 25, 26 years, but who's counting been podcasting off and on since 2006. And I'm a frequent guest on television locally and radio and podcast, of course. And thanks again for having me on your show. And but the thing that people that work with the Mo need to learn the most or. Ask me the most about is, Oh my gosh. What if our public relations efforts or our media outreach efforts or our podcast outreach efforts are successful? What now? Now the real panic begins because I have to sit in the chair or go to the studio or get on zoom and give an interview. And so what I do is offer some tips that I will get them over the hump and keep them calm and actually make the most out of that appearance. Nope.

Jim James: 2:03

what would be after 25 years, some of the sort of do's and don'ts that you've written about, because we all know that for clients getting in front of the media is both highly anticipated, but also highly stressful. How do you help prepare people first? Alex, let's start there.

Alex Greenwood: 2:17

I think the first thing is that people need to practice a little bit if they've never done it before. All right. For me, it's not a big deal that local TV about once a month they asked me to pick a topic and come on and talk about it on morning show. Fine by me. I can do that. but if you're just starting out doing this, it's not something you should just wing it. you should prepared because even though your segment may only be minutes that can be an eternity. If you zone out or forget what you're there to talk about. And I've seen this happen I've had a physicians at very learned people put on TV who were like, Oh, I'm fine. I don't need to practice And they've zoned out the deer are they headlights is a thing So what I tell people. The most important thing, even more than how you look, the clothes you wear is to make sure you have your thoughts down. I tell people, I call it the rule threes have three points, three salient points about what you're trying to about ready And when I say points, I don't just mean bullet points have three good anecdotes. possible, people learn by storytelling, people, especially learn. By hearing about other people's mistakes or about funny things. So if you can find some entertaining anecdotes get your point across and tell a story here there's a couple of things that going to happen. One, you're going to have more fun. You're going to get more engagement from the reporter or the host or the producer. You're going to get your point across and guess what? You'll probably get asked back

Jim James: 3:40

Yeah. Now, before you go on the the TV or the radio you're obviously, a past at this, you get your own messaging down with your rule of three. What do you advise terms of people getting to understand the medium first Alex? Because if they're going to go on TV or radio, it's like going into a social setting without knowing who else is going to be there.

Alex Greenwood: 4:02

That's a great point Chimp Yeah. The first thing is, especially, let's talk, just talk to the traditional news media first, not podcasting necessarily. That's a little bit but that the traditional news media, let's say you're going to get interviewed on your local television station. Let's just that. the thing to remember is this is a golden opportunity. That's not just handed out to anybody. they, they have a certain amount of time for every episode. has to be usually when talking about my local media, the first question they want to know is is it going to be local? is your story related to the local area that the viewers in? they want to make sure it's that. And they also want to make sure, can you speak, can you do these things? do you present well, all these things So the thing I always tell everybody, if I'm pitching a client, I often have to to the producer, I often have some kind of tape ready to them. And that may be a podcast that may be just a YouTube video they did on their website, where they their best. They're confident they're looking in the camera. They're telling a story, a little audition reel if for one of a better term is a great thing to have, but you've got to understand it from the media's perspective. If you look what We might call a dud. You might look like somebody never done anything like this before who you might poo might potentially be a deer in the headlights you might freeze. it's a lot easier for them to say. I don't so. So what I tell people all the time is remember, news presenters producers, reporters. They don't know anywhere near as much about your subject matter is you do. So if you can come off as confident, well-prepared you look good on camera as best can And you understand to them there's three or four minutes your segment and you're there to really do a job, which to one, make sure that you fill in all gaps for them, answer a lot of questions that are probably strange and out of left field to you. But you always have remember the reporters don't know. Anywhere near about what talking what you're talking about than you do. So they're going to ask questions. So just always prepared to, I don't say, answer or have questions, answers ready. if it's a child speaking to you, but definitely have it somebody who clearly has never heard about you do or maybe has heard about what do but has a So there's a lot of ways to prepare, but the most important there is to really demonstrate ahead of time, as you're trying to get on a show, as you're trying get interviewed that you know what you're talking about and you're not going to leave him hanging. That's a really important thing. Yeah. And I

Jim James: 6:13

suppose then you've got you sharing information about you, and then there's also doing a little bit of research about the meter or the show or the journalist that you're going to go and talk to Alex. what preparation or what tools do you help? Clients to, use, to get ready to actually, know and pitch properly with the audience that they're gonna talking to.

Alex Greenwood: 6:33

important that they watch the program or, this, I fortunate enough to be invited on the unnoticed. And I listened to a couple of shows because I wanted to get tone And I wanted to get the lay of the land on how the show goes. I it's a 20 minute show and I'm a chatty person, so I better be concise as Possible So I could get as much of there as I can. And good because when you have a good host, that's important, that's the host job. Your job is to provide an But the main thing though, that I if consuming it little bit beforehand viewing it beforehand, the information you're watching a program beforehand, or reading a reporters column, if it's going to be a print report or listening to radio program, you're going to know what to expect. And that's going to take your tension level too by the way just knowing just getting ready for this podcast. example I know Jim's show is 20 minutes. These are the things he likes cover We're going to, we're getting to log on before we record and chat for a little bit, just to establish a nice rapport. All those things, brought the temperature down for me, even though I've done a lot of these kinds interviews, it's always a challenge because you know And the less, the more your anxiety can go up. So I also think it's great when you're on TV, let's say you get that. And you're being shown into the studio I soon right here, where we are, where I go on a monthly Appearance, I'm doing it via zoom. I assume eventually they're going to open the studio back up and I go back in, what's really great when they're miking you up and they're sitting you down on the set and, the commercials playing or another story's playing. And you say to the host, by way, the other day, that guest who was about, how to macrame a t-shirt into a point landholder I thought that was fantastic and they'll laugh I liked the

Jim James: 8:06

macrame as well. Yeah, that was one of my, one my favorites.

Alex Greenwood: 8:10

But it's amusing to me about that too, is that these hosts, they do so many of these shows and they have so many guests they've already forgotten that, but they're going to be really happy though, that you obviously took the time to watch the show and tell them I like your work. It just helps your rapport immensely.

Jim James: 8:25

Now let's just think about something. When you're talking about podcasts, listening to you, moving forwards and backwards as we're talking, the sound and goes as well. Yeah. Do you want to just do that again?

Alex Greenwood: 8:38

I don't even know what you're talking about Jim really What is the big deal here? What are you saying?

Jim James: 8:42

See Alex is moving simply just forward and backwards in his chair, and you can hear the difference in the mic in your article that you've just written, which is on your medium website depository. You have a number tools and tips, Alex, don't you for people going on to podcasts? in the same way that we used have tips for going on TV, about what to wear, what not to wear, how to cut your hair and stuff like that. Do you want to take us through a few of your knowns and unknowns for podcast guesting?

Alex Greenwood: 9:11

I will. And I'll say this by the way, it's hard to believe that I've been doing this forever, but I still get so excited. I do move around a bit and it does kind of with the audio a little bit. So just goes to show you folks, everybody's got their thing they to work on I've got to work on mine. Jim is extraordinarily good. Jim has really sidled up to the mic and he's not moving. And that way his sound quality is just spot on. Perfect. So it's a good thing to think about, but here's some tips.

Jim James: 9:34

It's also a function of having a very small studio I haven't got a lot of places to You've got the luxury of a nice big space I if I move I might fall out of the shed but

Alex Greenwood: 9:45

go or disturbed your dog You don't want to do that

Jim James: 9:48

Oh the dog but no space Let's talk about managing your mic presence and and things like that.

Alex Greenwood: 9:54

the thing is and Jim made a great point listeners that about three inches away and I here's the thing I, before the show, I always insist that our guests on our shows mysterious goings on and PR after hours, the things I asked to do there's some things I'm very Picky about And one of besides telling their network that they're going to do the show tell their social media, I'm going to be on PR after hours. And then afterward here's the to PR after hours Please listen Cause I view the show as a partnership between us and the guests. Besides that though, just getting set up before all that, the audio set up as Jim's talking about the. What are the main reasons people stop listening to a podcast because the audio is just lousy And yeah me bopping around is is probably a little annoying but the worst things I think are when people record in a L in aloud. Place MC people don't think that but it could be anything from a continually, not your dog Jim but a continually dog to children playing typing really loud during the interview my goodness I've even had people eating during an interview It's true And I've had to say Hey maybe Put the burrito aside until after we're going to be done here just a minute you

Jim James: 11:04

they were taking your show seriously then Alex

Alex Greenwood: 11:07

I think I'm apparently I'm a little too laid back And they just thought, Hey man this guy is whatever He's just laid I am not the big Lebowski of podcasters though. So I've had to snap that back but yeah taking it seriously but that's one thing, but the one thing I tell them I say look I don't expect you If you're going to be in my pod to Go out and buy a microphone Okay I don't particular less and less and there's so many good cheap USB microphones out there. Now, if you intend to be on lot of podcasts I suggest you get one You're going to sound better. You're going to look professional But anyway, I get a lot of authors on mysterious goings on and they do some media about once or twice a year there's a new book or whatever. And they're only on it Maybe a couple of dozen shows And if they don't really want to invest in a mic I say most come with a good set earbuds with a mic built in that is leaps and bounds better than just talking into the internal mic of your computer And I have had guests argue with me so I sound fine Alex please don't be this way. I sound fine I'm like I can hear you It's great That I can hear you And they say I do zoom calls all the time Nobody they can't hear me And I said that's fine But remember, podcasting is an intimate medium And people usually have earbuds in they're listening to it That means every creak of your chair. That means every bit of local fry. That means all this stuff is right there. And that's one reason why Jim says, Alex, stop moving around But the other part is, if you're just talking into a internal mic It at best I think it's hard on the ears for a particularly if you do a show more than a few minutes I think that the listeners have it but at worst I think you're shouting in a storm cellar Basically The other reason I say is Put some earbuds in, because you don't want the echo of your internal speakers giving feedback on your Mike That awful the program one of the programs I to record tells me when people sign of an episode by the way and I've just done a little back of the envelope Look at some of my episodes where I knew the The quality was the sound quality Wasn't so great The guest was fine but the sound quality wasn't so great Those are the ones that get abandoned a regular basis

Jim James: 13:13

The statistics show that people will happily watch a movie where the pictures are not good, but will leave a movie If the audio is bad there is some accommodation that will put up with because the mind will make up more of the images but it won't make up the music So we have to think about the audio And also I think this other point though Alex, about knowing what it is that you want to communicate is really important Isn't it Because you touched on a very key that I found with clients they expect the journalists or the podcast hosts to know their domain well as they do And the journalist is often is really doing a favor by being a conduit to their audience And so I think we also have to balance out our expectations about they're willing to ask and what they're willing to understand What about if you're coaching your your clients Alex to address the kinds of audience that they want to how do you help to if you like decide how to pitch whether it's going to be a very technical story or it's going to be a very sales story or a very corporate story Cause you mentioned about having three stories in your arsenal Can you us some guidance on how you help them to prepare not of the same stories but three different that are interesting

Alex Greenwood: 14:31

the first thing though Jim is you, as you will know is that our job in public relations as consultants is to make sure we don't waste The news media is time or our client's time pitching them to outlets That just don't this doesn't work this morning show I do locally It's more of a lifestyle kind of thing. And I talk about social media and how to use the tips like we're talking about today That kind of thing But I had a client who who was into negotiating with the IRS now I thought Hey this is an example of me not being real smart on this. I guess I thought Oh the IRS will everybody has to file their taxes. But what was, what I didn't understand was that this show yeah People they would like some tips on dealing with the IRS but the client was more about dealing with the IRS If you're in a rears of your taxes for several years like your own you're in danger of going to jail. And they're like, okay, Basically in a nice way saying Alex don't harsher buzz at nine o'clock in the morning people are drinking coffee and we're talking about going to jail and I it was a valuable lesson for me I think thing is that if you're working if you're doing it yourself especially but if you're working with a PR person is to make sure that you both agree Okay This business radio outlet is a really great place for me to go to talk about being in a rears with the IRS, right This business publication this business-related deal I also worked for with a national pest control company and was basically let's they they were basically mail order They would mail you the ingredients You would combine at home and you would do your pest control. They would save you money It's a lot like all these things especially during that occurred where people were. Having stuff delivered And that actually started getting traction because it was timely And it worked with about every part of the media So that's the other thing too I told you earlier that when we're selecting media it's local media there should be a local angle to it. So you need to be able to this question I get often Jim I don't know if you do, when I'm pitching, let's say a local TV station again they'll say is anybody locally who's used is there. Is there a restaurant that uses this Is there a business uses where we could go out and get some B roll so we could get some video of this so we can interview other people besides you and your expert So that's important thing to keep in mind if it's local Localize it as much as you can and have a story of a client talk to them ahead time and say Hey listen we're I'm going to try and talk to channel five this. I'd love to mention that you're using our service and you love it And maybe could interview you now, most of the time there'll be like, Let's do it cause they get some publicity out of it. But you asked that ahead of time And then when you're pitching a producer you say Oh and by the way Jim over at ABC blah-blah-blah he's going to available to talk to you about it too and give you more information about it So that's what I like to do is to make sure that it's not just me I can have some third-party credibility going on with some other folks So those are some things you need to think about Okay. the biggest tip I can give is put yourself in their chair And Jim you're really good at this can, we've already talked about this they're doing you a favor and remember they are not an on everything that you are. So if you want them to help you by putting you on their program or in their publication Knock down every potential objection they would to you and using it. So that means say ahead of time I have all these assets I can share with you video assets other people you can interview I can bring it all to you I can give you free samples I can do all these things Knock down every objection and then make sure you remind them Oh here it's local It's timely there's something called news jacking which sounds a, a harsh word. But if there is a big story that is consuming everybody's life right now and there almost always is right Every week there's something and this th the pandemic sadly been one If you can find an angle That can ride along with the new cycle that puts you have an even greater stead with the news media

Jim James: 18:21

And then Alex after you've been on the show then is there anything that someone should do to make sure that there's a good follow through

Alex Greenwood: 18:28

Jim great question Remember to share the links to your appearance on all your social media and channels and newsletters and this seriously people look at me funny, but a thank you email to the producers or hosts of the podcast or the news media that you appear on is a nice touch. Especially if you tell them you share the links to it, and by the way even traditional news media they're in the game Now they want clicks If you say Hey I shared links to the YouTube of our interview on my social media That's really beneficial. And it's just, it's just a nice thing to do Just remember being prepared thoughtful and easy to work with is what most of what it takes to be a good guest. And that of course bring value to their show with your expertise in

Jim James: 19:04

Alex if people want to news Jack you I get you to help them with their story how can they come and find a fellow PR person worked over 25 years Two podcasts I managing one I think is a challenge Managing two is inspirational How do people get hold of Alex Greenwood in Missouri

Alex Greenwood: 19:24

yeah, managing two might be insanity actually but you can find me@alexgpr.com And again my PR show is PR after hours and my writing and creativity podcast is mysterious goings on, it's easy to find me through Alex G on Twitter underscore

Jim James: 19:42

Thank you for on and sharing your wisdom on how to get noticed if you are on notice Thank you Alex Greenwood all the way from Missouri for joining us on the unnoticed show today

Alex Greenwood: 19:51

My pleasure sir