Wake up from the bad dream of ineffective marketing strategies through data attribution; with Jeremy Sacramento of Dreamdata

Jim James: 00:00:00

Hello, and welcome to this episode of The UnNoticed Entrepreneur.

Jim James: 00:00:03

And today we're going to ask the question whether attribution is this silver bullet

Jim James: 00:00:08

to understanding where your customers have been before they come to you?

Jim James: 00:00:12

And to answer that question, I've got Jeremy Sacramento, who's got a

Jim James: 00:00:16

name like a town in California, but is actually in Copenhagen, Denmark.

Jim James: 00:00:21

Jeremy, welcome to the show.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:00:23

Hi, Jim.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:00:23

Thanks for having me on.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:00:24

It's a pleasure to be here.

Jim James: 00:00:25

Look, it's a pleasure to have you from Dreamdata on, because I've

Jim James: 00:00:29

been following your company on LinkedIn.

Jim James: 00:00:32

And I want us to talk about attribution - is it the silver bullet?

Jim James: 00:00:37

Because most entrepreneurs, including myself, don't know what's happening to

Jim James: 00:00:42

our customers before they get to us.

Jim James: 00:00:44

Let alone, even while they're on the journey through our own company.

Jim James: 00:00:48

So help us to understand, how do you, Dreamdata, help entrepreneurs get noticed?

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:00:53

Right.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:00:53

Yeah.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:00:53

So before I think we get into the meat of attribution, I think we should unpack

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:00:58

what we're trying to piece together.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:01:00

And that is the customer journey—that journey from when a customer

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:01:05

first sets off on buying a product of your type, and eventually

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:01:10

becoming a buyer of yours or not.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:01:12

But it's mapping that out and we all know how this customer

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:01:16

journey is becoming more complex.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:01:18

We've got individuals spending more time browsing overabundance of content, we've

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:01:24

got them doing so on multiple devices, we've got them using multiple channels—so

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:01:29

whether that's, you know, LinkedIn or Facebook, or Google, or YouTube, you

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:01:34

name it— they can find you somewhere.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:01:36

And there's this overabundance of content.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:01:38

All these interactions they have with all these brands are becoming more complex.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:01:43

And now at Dreamdata, as a B2B focused platform, we are trying

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:01:48

to make sense of the B2B journey.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:01:50

So, which I would say, has an added layer of complexity.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:01:53

And any of your listeners who are in that space will surely resonate

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:01:56

with this where they've multiple users, representing their company,

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:02:00

buying over a really prolonged time.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:02:02

Actually, we ran an analysis on our data, which found that the average

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:02:06

B2B customer journey takes from first touch to one closed as one takes

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:02:11

192 days, if that's, so it's about six months if my math is correct.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:02:16

So there's a lot of interaction that is taking place with different brands

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:02:21

on review sites, on with blog posts.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:02:23

And, what we are trying to do is unpack all that data and make

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:02:28

sense of what's happening there.

Jim James: 00:02:30

Yeah, that's right.

Jim James: 00:02:31

And as you say, if you've got nearly six months or more of analysis

Jim James: 00:02:35

and touchpoints, many of those touchpoints, as well, companies have

Jim James: 00:02:39

put out content, you say, on blogs, or maybe they've done Facebook ads,

Jim James: 00:02:42

or videos on YouTube or on Vimeo.

Jim James: 00:02:45

How do you help an entrepreneur to consolidate all of that information?

Jim James: 00:02:50

Because at the moment I've created, for example, a dashboard

Jim James: 00:02:54

from podcast downloads to email newsletters, and so on, at the

Jim James: 00:02:58

moment, is a manual process in Excel.

Jim James: 00:03:01

How do you help with that?

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:03:02

Well it's exactly that.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:03:03

We are moving off Excel and trying to actually pick up all those data points.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:03:09

Now, what we see is entrepreneurs and startups through to enterprises using

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:03:14

an increasing number of tools—whether it's your email automation, your

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:03:18

ad platform, your podcasts service provider— all these are sitting on these

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:03:22

different data silos, as we call them.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:03:25

Which needs to be pulled out, pulled together, cleaned, so that you're looking

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:03:30

at the same customer doing all these different touches, including those that

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:03:35

are coming, you know, your web analytics, we're talking about kind of your web

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:03:38

tracking, Google analytics type of thing.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:03:41

We're going to get all that data together, and then we map it out, and

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:03:45

tell you kind of where your customers are and how they're interacting at

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:03:49

the individual level but also at the account level, which is extremely useful.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:03:54

So when you've got an entrepreneur, who's sending out an email newsletter,

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:03:59

who's running a podcast, who's, you know, producing a bunch of blog posts.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:04:03

Then, we answer the question, 'Is that working or is it not

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:04:07

working?' That is fundamentally what we're trying to achieve.

Jim James: 00:04:11

And that's wonderful because, presumably, then you're helping the

Jim James: 00:04:14

business owner to optimise their activities decide what's working and

Jim James: 00:04:19

what's not, is that right, Jeremy?

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:04:20

Exactly.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:04:21

So what ll you find is whether that email newsletter you're sending has actually

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:04:26

generated because attribution, and we'll get now into the attribution aspect,

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:04:30

is fundamentally linking your inputs.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:04:33

So your marketing efforts with revenue and actual business outcomes.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:04:37

So it's moving past the simple traffic metrics or simple conversion metrics.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:04:42

It's actually going further down the funnel and saying, "Okay,

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:04:45

is this generating revenue?"

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:04:47

Especially you've got a product that you're selling.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:04:49

So you will then see, "Okay right.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:04:52

My Google ad, this Google ad campaign, has brought in 20 customers.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:04:57

Whereas this other one has only brought in two.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:05:00

You know, I know now where I want to invest my money."

Jim James: 00:05:02

Well, that's really good.

Jim James: 00:05:04

So you can really analyse and optimise the campaigns as well.

Jim James: 00:05:07

You have touched on a point that I have to ask you, which

Jim James: 00:05:10

is about compliance with GDPR.

Jim James: 00:05:13

And of course, now iOS is having blockers as well, which make you

Jim James: 00:05:16

a big impact on trackability.

Jim James: 00:05:20

How do you overcome that?

Jim James: 00:05:21

Because that would seem to undermine, if you like, the very

Jim James: 00:05:25

essence of what you're doing.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:05:26

Yeah, and that is a question we get all the time,

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:05:29

especially in the wake of Google analytics being barred in, I think,

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:05:33

it's France or a number of European countries, because they've broken GDPR

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:05:37

compliance by sending data over to the US.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:05:40

So, Dreamdata and most other attribution platforms use first-party

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:05:44

data, which is consent-based cookies.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:05:47

Basically, when you press accept on the cookie banner that pops up, and

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:05:51

the data always resides in the EU.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:05:53

So it's GDPR compliant by default, and it's become a very

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:05:57

important subject metaphor for all of our prospective customers.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:06:00

and one which we are happy to say that we fulfill in its entirety.

Jim James: 00:06:04

Yeah, of course.

Jim James: 00:06:05

And I'm sure that's fantastic, Jeremy, that we've reassured everybody with that.

Jim James: 00:06:10

Can we just talk about how much of the customer journey takes place before the

Jim James: 00:06:16

customer—B2B or consumer—actually makes a purchase because it seems there's

Jim James: 00:06:21

been a fundamental shift in that.

Jim James: 00:06:23

And that would seem to be why a platform like Dreamdata can give an awareness

Jim James: 00:06:29

of the behavior and really who is that customer before they even get to talk

Jim James: 00:06:34

to the sales person, or in store, or the online customer service person.

Jim James: 00:06:39

Can you just tell us a bit more about how customer journeys are changing and

Jim James: 00:06:42

why we'd need a platform like Dreamdata?

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:06:44

Well, that's absolutely correct, Jim.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:06:46

And I was mentioning before how the customer journey is becoming more complex

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:06:50

and it's all this— the overabundance of content across all these channels.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:06:55

And consumers are spoiled for choice, let's face it, on all spaces

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:06:58

so they can spend time, they try products as online-based products,

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:04

especially like Dreamdata, you know, and you get free offerings.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:06

So they might be able to research, they might be able to go into review sites.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:11

They'll spend time reading blogs, comparison articles.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:14

They'll listen to podcasts, they'll watch webinars, YouTube videos, you name it.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:19

They're going to spend all this time, they can even sign up and try a product

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:23

for free, or before even coming into contact with anyone, which is insane.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:28

When you think about piecing together your customer journey and knowing

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:31

what's working and what isn't.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:33

All this is happening in this kind of digital space, mostly.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:36

And it's fundamental to any business owner, any leader, to

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:41

know what is happening and whether what's happening there is working.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:44

You want to gain that competitive advantage.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:47

You want to do so efficiently.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:48

You want to spend on your ads efficiently.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:50

You want to run good email campaigns.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:52

This is all going to happen in that space.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:54

I mean, the figure that is bounced around quite often is that 60% of the

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:07:58

customer journey is happening before that actual interaction with an individual.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:08:02

This is what we're helping to clarify.

Jim James: 00:08:05

Okay, Jeremy, I have a question for you.

Jim James: 00:08:07

You've identified different kinds of platforms, right?

Jim James: 00:08:10

So some will be my own channels, my own YouTube account or my own

Jim James: 00:08:15

Facebook account, for example.

Jim James: 00:08:17

But some of those, for example, Glassdoor, or Trustpilot, or Google reviews, I

Jim James: 00:08:24

may not have a campaign running or even have an account on some of those.

Jim James: 00:08:29

How do you track the universe where there are actually some that we don't have

Jim James: 00:08:35

an account on those social channels?

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:08:38

Yeah, so there's a number of ways that it might happen.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:08:40

And I guess this touches on a topic that we might want to discuss, that

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:08:43

attribution and customer journey mapping is not a silver bullet, you

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:08:47

know, it can't give you 100% clarity.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:08:49

It's impossible.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:08:50

But where those touch points are recordable, for example, typically you're

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:08:55

using, there'll be a UTM parameter.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:08:58

So when that individual has been to review and jumps into your site,

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:09:03

a UTM parameter might be added.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:09:05

If you're not doing so, this is good practice to make sure that it's added.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:09:09

And then that will then start being tracked.

Jim James: 00:09:11

Sorry.

Jim James: 00:09:12

Let me interrupt.

Jim James: 00:09:12

What's a UTM for those of us that aren't familiar with the term?

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:09:15

You've probably seen it when you've got a link, typically on

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:09:19

Facebook, that you've clicked through.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:09:21

You'll get the website URL.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:09:23

So like the website name, www.unnoticed.cc.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:09:26

And then, forward /sourcexmediumx, and that is the UTM parameter.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:09:34

It's kind of data on where that link has come from.

Jim James: 00:09:38

Okay.

Jim James: 00:09:39

So it's some universal tracking metadata or something.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:09:42

Precisely.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:09:43

So what you want to be doing is ensuring that wherever you've got links coming

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:09:47

into your site, where you are tracking individuals to have these parameters,

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:09:51

for example, this is a cheap shot.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:09:52

Otherwise, you want to have accounts and find ways to pull

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:09:55

data out of those systems.

Jim James: 00:09:57

Okay, so what you might do is, for example, if you find you're

Jim James: 00:10:00

getting data or leads from something like, you know, review sites, you

Jim James: 00:10:03

might then decide to create your own review site to capitalise on that.

Jim James: 00:10:07

Jeremy, this sounds very clever.

Jim James: 00:10:10

How clever would I need to be to run Dreamdata?

Jim James: 00:10:14

Is it beyond the reamer of a humble PR guy like myself?

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:10:18

The short answer is no.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:10:20

But I guess there are two layers to that question.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:10:22

The tech side, so setting it up has kind of presents some level of

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:10:28

complexity, but we're happy to say that our free offering is becoming

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:10:32

one where it's self-service entirely.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:10:35

At the click of a button, you'll be able to do your tracking.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:10:38

And then, there's...

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:10:39

the more tools you have, how can I put it nicely?

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:10:41

So the more tools you have, the more messy your data is and the harder it's going

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:10:46

to be to track and to connect it all.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:10:48

So I guess it's dependent on each use case that this is the tech space.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:10:53

So the more complicated your tech stack, the harder it's going

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:10:56

to be to piece it all together.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:10:57

Now, let's hypothetically assume that everything's connected and in place.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:11:02

As a marketer, how marketing savvy does one have to be to use and

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:11:06

understand attribution in Dreamdata?

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:11:09

Well, not so much.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:11:10

I think it's better described as a culture shift.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:11:13

A lot of people aren't used to working with metrics that are

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:11:16

revenue-based or pipeline-based.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:11:18

So, you know, people are very used to working with traffic— the number of

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:11:23

visitors, bounce rates, conversion rates.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:11:26

But when you start, you know, exposing the marketing team or an individual to,

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:11:30

okay, your campaign's only generated X amount of revenue, then you kind of need a

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:11:36

grapple with what that represents, because it might have to kill some darlings.

Jim James: 00:11:40

Yeah, but I think from what I've seen of your website, actually

Jim James: 00:11:43

integration is pretty much you sign up for an account and then you give it access to

Jim James: 00:11:48

the data for your other platforms, right?

Jim James: 00:11:50

So you just connect them.

Jim James: 00:11:51

And then, a bit like a bank feed through the open banking forum, it's automatically

Jim James: 00:11:56

pulling data and then putting that into the dashboards, isn't it?

Jim James: 00:11:59

So it looks like the integration is pretty straightforward to be honest.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:12:03

That's correct.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:12:04

Yeah.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:12:04

And it saves individuals from having to do all that Excel process

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:12:08

that you were describing before.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:12:09

Once all the integrations are in place, once you've got all your tools on your

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:12:13

tech stack connected with Dreamdata, those dashboards are just going to be running

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:12:17

and kind of modelling the data, and you're going to have this nice interface

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:12:21

which you can, you know, optimise, as you said earlier, your campaigns and

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:12:26

your channels and make sure you're spending your money where you should be.

Jim James: 00:12:29

And I love the way that it looks as though the displays are

Jim James: 00:12:32

showing sort of both the snapshot, if you like, but also over time.

Jim James: 00:12:37

So a bit like having a cash flow statement, you know, and a P&L,

Jim James: 00:12:41

and a balance sheet, it looks as though you're getting sort of

Jim James: 00:12:43

different views of the same data, Jeremy, which is really fantastic.

Jim James: 00:12:47

A question we need to have a attribution...

Jim James: 00:12:50

can you just give us your definition of attribution for those of us

Jim James: 00:12:53

that are not really in that space?

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:12:56

So again, at its most fundamental, it's

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:12:59

connecting your marketing efforts, your go-to-market efforts.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:13:02

So everything you're doing to try and sell your product with business

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:13:05

outcomes and revenue, that is, I guess, in the abstract sense.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:13:09

In practice, what happens is you're assigning credit to those touches that

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:13:15

are happening, again, when a user clicks on a paid ad, when a user read your

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:13:20

newsletter, watches a podcast, you're assigning credit so that you can better

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:13:24

understand where the better performers are, where the weaker performers

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:13:28

are, which ones you should cut, which ones you should scale and repeat.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:13:33

And, ultimately, I guess, understand your revenue streams better.

Jim James: 00:13:37

So here's the question then for you, Jeremy, can I actually see the names

Jim James: 00:13:42

of those people or are they all anonymous?

Jim James: 00:13:44

Because they're all, I guess, you know, tracking cookies, right?

Jim James: 00:13:47

Or pixels of some kind.

Jim James: 00:13:50

Is it anonymous or do I actually get names and addresses

Jim James: 00:13:53

starting to feed into my CRM?

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:13:55

Yeah, well, you'll get the names and addresses.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:13:58

And for B2B, which is one of our main target audience, you'll get the company.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:14:02

And this happens as soon as they identify themselves through a form submission.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:14:07

Let's say they sign up to your newsletter and you've asked for their

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:14:09

name, that will get kind of channelled through to the customer profile.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:14:13

Of course, it will be anonymous for as long as it needs to be - given, you know,

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:14:17

the privacy issues you've already raised.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:14:19

But yeah, you can get a data enrichment, as it's called, you know, you will get

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:14:24

an "Enriched Customer Profile," with all the relevant details that you need

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:14:28

to improve your marketing and sales, and build audiences, for example.

Jim James: 00:14:32

So Jeremy, that's fantastic.

Jim James: 00:14:33

So it sounds as though with the freemium model, a company of any size

Jim James: 00:14:37

could sign up and use Dreamdata to optimise their marketing and advertising

Jim James: 00:14:44

content strategy, is that right?

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:14:46

That is absolutely correct.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:14:48

Yeah.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:14:48

There's there are three pricing tiers.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:14:50

We've got the free offering, where you're limited in the number

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:14:52

of integrations you can make.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:14:53

Basically, it's available to anyone.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:14:55

Again, I would limit it to the B2B space, that's what we're focusing.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:14:59

So especially you're selling two businesses.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:15:01

Then we've got a team offering with some more add-ons.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:15:04

And finally the business level, which is targeting, I guess, people

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:15:07

that might not be in your audience bigger, bigger, bigger businesses.

Jim James: 00:15:11

The large enterprises.

Jim James: 00:15:13

Now you talk about our audience, Jeremy, how is Dreamdata doing

Jim James: 00:15:17

its own PR and getting noticed?

Jim James: 00:15:19

Because as you know, I love to hear how companies do their

Jim James: 00:15:21

own work for getting noticed.

Jim James: 00:15:23

So how are you doing that?

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:15:25

So, yeah, we are running the familiar motions.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:15:28

We are running paid ads principally on Google but also on LinkedIn.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:15:32

Again, as a B2B company, we know that our audience is lurking on LinkedIn.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:15:35

So it's an extremely valuable channel.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:15:37

We're also running emails, content, we've got a blog.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:15:40

We've got some YouTube videos.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:15:42

But I mean, something that tackles this side, I don't know if you're

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:15:45

aware of "The Dark Funnel."

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:15:46

So, you know, exposure to a brand without an actual touch taking place.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:15:51

We have "Employee advocacy."

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:15:53

So we have...

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:15:54

we encourage "Social Selling."

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:15:56

So using LinkedIn as an individual, as Jeremy, for example, to try

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:16:01

and generate demand for Dreamdata.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:16:04

So like the company has a culture where you're encouraged just to, you know,

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:16:07

spend time on LinkedIn, get your posts up.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:16:10

I put a couple of memes recently that went, you know, did quite well.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:16:13

And then, people that are lurking in your followers within the space

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:16:18

that you want to be selling to are now exposed to your brand.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:16:21

So we're trying to cover as much space as possible, from paid to organic stuff.

Jim James: 00:16:26

I love that term, "The Dark Funnel."

Jim James: 00:16:29

Is that what it's called?

Jim James: 00:16:30

I've never heard that term before.

Jim James: 00:16:31

It sounds a little bit Star Wars, like, but The Dark Funnel.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:16:37

Yeah, that's correct.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:16:37

I mean, it's a space, there are a couple of LinkedIn influences that come to

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:16:41

mind that are really pushing that term.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:16:43

But the, it is now become entrenched in marketing circles.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:16:47

It's, yeah, everything that's happening on a non-touch basis.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:16:51

So are you exposed to certain individuals from certain brands that are kind of

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:16:55

actually, you know, getting you to making you aware, sorry, of, of their product.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:16:59

Yeah, The Dark Funnel.

Jim James: 00:17:00

Wow, Jeremy.

Jim James: 00:17:01

That's fantastic.

Jim James: 00:17:02

So we've been talking with you, Jeremy Sacramento, content manager at

Jim James: 00:17:06

dreamdata.io is the website, isn't it?

Jim James: 00:17:10

And talking about whether attribution is the silver bullet for understanding,

Jim James: 00:17:15

you know, where your customers are before they even come and

Jim James: 00:17:18

talk to you about buying from you.

Jim James: 00:17:20

So, Jeremy, thank you so much for joining me, Jim James, on this episode

Jim James: 00:17:23

of The UnNoticed Entrepreneur, and clarifying a whole new area of work

Jim James: 00:17:28

that, personally, I had no idea about.

Jim James: 00:17:30

So thank you so much.

Jeremy Sacramento: 00:17:32

Thank you, Jim.

Jim James: 00:17:33

So you've been on the show with me, Jim James, and Jeremy

Jim James: 00:17:36

Sacramento over in Copenhagen.

Jim James: 00:17:38

And, I will, of course, put his details and the details of

Jim James: 00:17:41

dreamdata.io in the show notes.

Jim James: 00:17:44

And I encourage you to have a look, and as it's a free sign up.

Jim James: 00:17:48

I personally am going to be trying this because I've got so many different

Jim James: 00:17:50

channels to communicate that I've been desperately looking for a way to

Jim James: 00:17:54

aggregate that and create a dashboard, and optimise the PR that we do.

Jim James: 00:17:59

And I'm sure that'll be of value to you too.

Jim James: 00:18:01

So thank you so much for listening to this episode of The UnNoticed Entrepreneur.