If you would like to know how to get over 1.5m views on your social media content then listen to Luna's story.

Jim James: 0:00

Hello, and welcome to this episode of the unnoticed show. If you've got something that you'd really like to share, or you're just struggling with the boring old formats of text, for example, you might want to listen to this podcast because we're going to talk about how one enterprising lady created avatars. And edumercials that have had over one and a half million views in just 30 days. I'm going to introduce you to Dr. Shelley James who created the Luna go lightly series. Which has raised sponsorship from major lighting industry players. And has led Shelley to be featured on the BBC and created a commercial opportunity enterprise, all based around a passion and a skill that she has got around light. And yes, Dr. Shelley, James is my sister. But i think you're gonna love the story that she's got to share Shelley welcome to the show.

Shelley James: 0:53

Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here.

Jim James: 0:55

Now you're here. Not just because you're my amazing sister, but also you've managed to create a set of avatars that have got over one and a half million views of some edumercials for kids. Tell us about Luna, go lightly and the problem that you're solving and how other people can learn from it.

Shelley James: 1:12

I started this project, in fact, during lockdown, because I found myself really struck by how the young people around me were locked down, locked inside, and I could see them really struggling. And I realized that. There was some very simple things that they could do and that their parents could do to make a massive difference. And it was all about light. And so what I did to begin with was simply to reach out to experts because I felt that there were so many people around the world doing some brilliant work in this field. And so I spoke to scientists, I spoke to education specialists and I spoke to some manufacturers and I recorded a series of interviews initially to find things out myself, but also then to share that with other people. And that started to build an audience. In fact, and at the end of that, I invited these world experts to come together for a panel debate because I thought, what can I offer them back for their time? And what I realized when I asked them whether they were free, was they suddenly all wants to be together in the same room. People in the same, in different disciplines, very often don't get a chance to meet each other. So we had a panel of the beat and. At the end of that, we all agreed that this information was so precious and so powerful, but there was nowhere for ordinary folk to find this stuff out. And so I reached out to, and they said Shelly, why don't you have a go at doing that? And so I took down the, took on the challenge. And in fact, three of the manufacturers who were in, who aren't connected through this process of making interviews, they agreed to sponsor this initial. This initial foundation series. And we came up with the idea of Luna Golightly and her dad and a uh, of the beam and spectrum the cat and the five layers is a little sort of unit who would be the host for this conversation. And we also realized that the audience that we wanted to connect with teens because they're the ones that. That really get the students to make their own decisions. And they're really affected by this. And we realized I'm certainly I'm inspired by the teams around me, including your amazing daughters, Jim, about how, when they know about why they should do something, they get on and do it. They are absolutely remarkable. As long as we're there telling them to do stuff, they go whatever, if they really get why then they really take it on. And in fact, they're always ready to share. So we develop this thing and this initial concept, and these sponsors came on board for this foundation series. And when I realized that I needed to do is to make sure it was independent. And so I made sure all these w I chose. Money. I choose sponsors from different sectors. So there was no competition. They were all absolutely in it for the same thing, which is to put the humans back at the center of human centered lighting. And what I also did was to bring up scientists in so that it wasn't just about selling products. It was actually about solutions. It was about what really makes a difference. And the third thing I did was to bring in. A focus group of teens so that I, because I don't have kids myself I spend as much time as I can, learning what they're interested in, but I don't have the kids myself. And so I, yeah, invited a small group of teens to tip, to help me to make this work in a way that to deliver the information in the way that they work, that would work for them. And. It was an interesting journey. And we were I felt as if I was in a hurry, really, I decided that I wanted to launch this soon after Christmas, early January time, because I could see these kids suffering. And I knew that by the time the spring came on, who knew everything's moving so fast. I came up with an initial concept and I did some cartoons that it's in drawing and I showed that with the guys and they went well, whatever. Yeah. It's okay. But whatever. And actually it was your idea, Jim, to come up to use a tool, which was much closer to a Tik TOK style. And so I came back with that using an online platform. I created some free avatars using an online design platform. I'd used some graphics using online design platform. And I showed that to the teens and I saw the eyes light up. They went on now. That's more like it.

Jim James: 5:21

Was this the first one with doodly and Toonly or is this the lumen5 five version?

Shelley James: 5:27

So the first one's a hand-drawn and then put through doodly and then I tried to lead with their own, but they were, it was always a little bit too. they went, yeah, it's like the kind of thing we'd get at school. It's all right. When we started to use lumen five, which gave us a completely different aesthetic. It was poppy. and actually Luna. the initial idea was, there was a story about Luna and the kids were saying that's honestly, it's just taking too long to get into this. And when we went right back to. Core message. We came up with a formula actually, which with their help really lands very quickly and Luna simply becomes the host with the sponsors. So the idea was to listen to what the teams needed and gives them that in a way that they would get and not keep on pushing our own agenda, whether it be to promote Luna or to promote a product.

Jim James: 6:18

one of the key elements of the SPEAK PR program is that you're creating content in the format that the audience already is comfortable with now, rather than creating what were initially sort of PowerPoint presentations for children. Right. And that, that missed the Mark. The content was interesting, but the format was not, that was a big lesson too. The medium being the message,

Shelley James: 6:36

Marshall McLewan right there. it's it's true. And I think the other thing that was interesting was One of the reasons I was very glad to have a set of sponsors who were passionate about this topic too is that when we asked the kids what they needed to know some of the topics that this manufacturers are very proud of in their products they went well whatever it just wasn't on the agenda So that's something else we were able to it's we used a language a visual language and a timing that the kids Used to and we also met them where they were in terms of their interests So that was something else that we learned very quickly and actually has meant that we were able to create content which which really landed And what's interesting is that the original idea that we created this a series so that people could almost like a funnel of information for different dimensions or different Parts of their relationships So we have a 42nd quick hit and then we have a minute and half up to two minutes longer dive With some practical solutions like like me to some things And then we have an interview with a scientist about the underlying science And this toolkit is starting to be used by schools And we'd expected that the And we expected that the information or that they would only watch the 42nd maybe that's enough but actually what we're finding particularly for a couple of the more technical topics like flicker and headaches the two-minute version is getting 49% watch So that's a two minute video about flicker and you think that's so we were able to use Social media platforms to really be fed out week by week And we adjust we were able to adjust things like the titles We were able to adjust the where things were delivered in a way that over time our scores have gone on one particular video We simply changed the title It went from seven and a half percent click through to 13% you can really be super agile super quick by creating this but by monitoring the spend and the kind of feedback very quickly

Jim James: 8:54

That's what we call amplification in this SPEAK PR program Shelley just tell us then you've got these different video formats sort of 40 to two minutes which platforms have you used?

Shelley James: 9:06

So we simply went to the where audiences which is Facebook and Instagram we looked at Tik TOK we looked at Twitter but neither of those have really taken off in the way that we thought they might And so what we've done is simply to focus and it's been interesting because we initially placed the ads through Instagram and through Facebook separately And because we were adjusting the titles we were sort of playing well playing fine tuning Instagram actually blocked us briefly from putting the ads up And so what we were able to do in fact thanks to my amazing VA we were able to do was to placed the Instagram ads via Facebook And what we'd seen was that the Instagram engagement we were getting many more with the reach was much bigger but the engagement on was relatively low So on Facebook I was getting 12 15 20% Click and watch Whereas on Instagram we were getting six seven eight up to 9% So what we found is in fact by placing the ads via Facebook onto Instagram we getting a lower reach I mean they're still in the thousands a day but we're getting lower reach but higher click through higher engagement

Jim James: 10:27

Why do you think that is

Shelley James: 10:30

I don't know but what's interesting Is that just fine tuning things like changing the title changing the cover image changing the pathway for plate even for replacing that art seems to make a massive difference

Jim James: 10:43

Yeah I use a tool called headline analyzer and it's amazing The difference in discoverability just by changing a few words can make you can have a score of 50 to 60 throughout up to about 84 is the highest I've ever got out of a hundred just by changing the titles So that's a really great learning as well

Shelley James: 11:01

views that made a big difference to the way I think not only to the way that Facebook and Instagram have been promoting and sort of helping us to reach those amazing numbers but also we were very careful about the landing image The way into the piece really made a massive difference one of them has a picture of a dad on the front and that has done very that's one of our best

Jim James: 11:23

Yes I liked that one as a dad Shelley, so the thumbnail is I think it is called right Is also making a difference So it's really as a science but also an iterative one that's also been a really good learning from this Well can we just talk a little bit about content initially you went well we went to a big agency what was the original sort of idea of cost Because I think that was one of the bottlenecks originally

Shelley James: 11:47

Absolutely Jim So I mean I've worked in big agencies myself and I and you sort of think that the only way to really make an impact to make a difference is to use a giant agency probably in Soho or in New York because they will look so cool And uh they do amazing amazing work but we went out to a couple of them and in fact some of them are so grand They it felt like a privilege They didn't even talk to us And they said Oh well Whether it it be three So a couple of months of course you've got Christmas it'll be a couple of months to do the concept and there'll be 5,000 pounds to just do the concept because we'd like Q that's cheap for for us the copyright for the things that we create And then if you want to make some more for everyone week he wants to make five That'd be 75,000 pounds plus the initial plus the buyout of the rights So I was thinking shall I mortgage a house What how how does that work Um and also sort of worried that if I when for something I also went to some smaller agencies and that was sort of 25 grand which is sort of pretty much doubled the budget So and that's without paying myself So I thought I thought well if I I don't want to feel like I'm going for something that's sort just cheap and cheerful because actually uninspiring those cheap ones I mean there wasn't that cheap Um and it was still going to take ages and I was going to to have to kind explain to the design all the time what I wanted So I decided that either I went sort of top dollar I just went for it And because have the choice of going top dollar I just went for it And that's been a brilliant lesson I suppose having confidence in your own ideas but also using the tools that are out there Because when we when when when I share what I've done with these giant I mean some of my sponsors are biggest in the world and they are responding

Jim James: 13:36

Well lets give them a shout They some budget but not not really a huge amount but enough to get it started Right So it created a real limitation on the production budgets

Shelley James: 13:46

Way is is a benefit I mean again one of the lessons is to stay agile and that sort of a 5,000 pound ceiling for A little sort of it's about the price of a transatlantic class or you know we're not you're in the realm of things that they can actually one of the clients suggested that he pay on his DMX card you know So you're in the realm of things they can they can make you take a punt above level You start to go into committees and then your idea sort of just runs into the sand I think the other thing that really helped process of moving quickly is that It was the end of the it was the year end sort of October November and then got a little bit of money to mop up So well a couple of them had particularly because the pandemic meant that they weren't able to do some of the trade shows and things that they were doing So uh and they were sort of looking for ways to pivot And so choosing your moment can really help in that zone as well

Jim James: 14:42

So I think that's of wonderful learnings in Darren debt that you focused on on the children Really made a big difference Didn't it That it wasn't a hero piece I think we had that decision about focusing on spending on the promotion not on the production and that that was also a key moment I In terms of um the the response Can you talk a little bit about the sort of the engagement on the client side What have you had to do to sort of negotiate and get them from a Cause the the way that you've got it financed is a new model really has get three sponsors for one piece of content Just tell us a little bit about how negotiated

Shelley James: 15:25

I suppose as with everything it's to do with building a relationship I didn't know these guys to begin with And what I did first was to offer them a platform using the interviews essentially as an excuse to speak to them and as an as a way otherwise So I went in there with a give at all So I'd say that's the first lesson is that you meet people as human beings who are passionate about the topic and you give them the benefit of the doubt about that You you kind of you set the expectation that we're all in this for the right reasons So and the interview is great or the podcast or something It's a great excuse So I'd say that was the first thing I'd say the next thing was to um Be clear that we were in a kind of um We're in a team where um there wasn't any sort of nobody was getting their names in a sales So there was there was completely open for the same reason and that they could use their sales teams and in trade fairs And in other situations where they just need to break presentation So I was offering them some tools that they were clear where they could but they weren't but they were also clear that they um that they weren't entirely in charge of it They weren't commissioning me to make something that we were all together on a journey to shift the language about human centered lighting So I think I mean think the other thing

Jim James: 16:54

Yeah I

Shelley James: 16:54

if was great Was it like I got an anchor tenant in there first I mean it's all semi-colon is is is giant and and the guy who um is my sponsor And in fact we're talking about the next level of Um He's quite a he's an unusual man and ready to take really to try stuff out And he's got from head office and he does interesting that in the bag I could say well these guys are doing it there's even one of them I said look I'll give you a discount so that I just have you on there So um but I but I'd already got a couple of anchor tenants and he wants to be in but he hadn't couldn't work out how to make it work well having having a triad in these different sectors will just really ramp it up for all of us so okay You can come in So I think yeah anchor tenants ready to take a risk and delivering them um Mark from salsa in econ who took the risk So he was my anchor tenant Um that his boss over in Korea I mean in Korea myopia and the problem of bad lighting and kids is just massive I mean there's just a whole generation of kids who are on the verge of you know really struggling with their eyesight taking into later years And he was he project got noticed boss the head of salt and you know they never do that And we we were when we decided to launch leaner on LinkedIn and other platforms his boss CEO got his weight behind it and did a we got 1200 views on LinkedIn and hours So you know it's I was able to give him something back um in terms of his own kind of association with the project which is um which has seemed to be it's in line with our positioning and in line with his own positioning as a kind of uh as an innovator

Jim James: 18:39

Yeah So you've really taken care of a number of different stakeholders really having you Shelly the both the young people who are the primary stakeholders sponsors And and what about for you now You're being oppressed Approached by the media You've been on the BBC radio Talk about light You've been approached by a PR firm to you know they'd like to work with you which is a nice turn of events next one last sentence then Shelly what's next for Luna Go lightly And the age of light innovations group

Shelley James: 19:08

it's exciting times I think I spoke to before Luna started Have come back and want to one It's the full restaurant thing I'm now looking at um how to bring that closer to specifiers and architects and people who can actually make those sorts of decisions So I'm working um in conversations with um one of the very a couple of large organizations in the States particularly about bringing this message to the people who were starting to make the decisions as part of the well building standards So that's the next part of this project

Jim James: 19:43

James if we want to Find out about you can they

Shelley James: 19:46

website age of light innovations.com and you'll find my contact details there I'm also on LinkedIn and that's probably where you'll find me most easily So

Jim James: 19:56

Shelly Thank you so much for joining me Obviously a double pleasure for me because I get to have my amazing sister It's actually Dr Shelley James Let's not forget She actually asked as a Doctorate So there you go. I told you that she is amazing not only seeing my sister, but she's doing amazing work for young people in this world about the power of light. Thank you for listening to this episode of the unnoticed. And there are lots of great learnings from Shelly here. Not least of which is to focus on. On the end on the goal and to find the solutions it's about being resourceful rather than having a lot of resources. So wonderful inspiration from Shelley James. So wishing you the best of health, a safe lockdown, and that if you've got children check out the lunar Golightly videos, I think you'll find them really informative and inspiring. I know that I have. Thanks for listening. Be well.