How does a Dutchman make money FLIRTing with social media from his Riad in Morocco?

Unknown: 0:11

Welcome to The Silver Fox Entrepreneurs podcast, the show for mature men with enterprise. Your host is Jim James an entrepreneur himself, who is doing his best to introduce guests who will bring you useful information and the kind of inspiration that makes running your own business, profitable and fun. We're building a community too. So do rate and share the show afterwards.

Jim James: 0:41

Welcome to this week's episode of The Silver Fox entrepreneurs podcast. This week, I'm delighted that I'm interviewing an old friend called Mark Campman, who I met back in the mid 90s when I was running East West PR in Singapore and Mark was the Director of Marketing at Logica PLC in London, marks a Dutchman who's made the UK his home. And he has made digital his career. He is the author of a book called flirten omics. And we're going to chat about how he has made digital his life and his passion for sharing all about community and digital marketing, and how he's going to make that fund his future, which is in Morocco. Mark campman, an old friend and a silverfox entrepreneur, welcome to The Silver Fox entrepreneurs podcast, tell the other foxes about yourself and what you're doing now.

Mark Campman: 1:46

So I realized recently that I've been at work for over 40 years now. And I started the first of April 1981 with IBM in the Netherlands in Amsterdam. Now if I look at those 40 years, I can see that it's for decades, the first 10 years of my career, I worked for large corporate organizations as a marketeer companies like IBM Burroughs, unisys, always in the technology sector. The second 10 years of my career was where I started working International. I moved to the UK worked for the European headquarters, and then moved to California where I worked in Silicon Valley for a few years. And we're talking about the early 90s. Now, this is where I got involved heavily involved in the internet. And I later realized I was one of the first to demo the internet in in Silicon Valley, the third 10 years, word years that I sort of got into the startup business, and where I got into social media, which was obviously completely different than the the Senya. Before that, and I build a lot of experience of marketing for for small companies, startup companies, small medium enterprises. And then the fourth 10 years, which is the latest sort of 10 years is the period that I ran my that I'm running my own business. And that's where we will go into more detail throughout this throughout this conversation, Jim.

Jim James: 3:29

So Mark, you've really been riding the the tech sort of way from the innovation through to the implementation and now to social media. And as a as a man, I think generously in your 50s. Now, why do you think being over 50 is an ideal time to start in business? Because you've obviously been in big companies and then smaller companies, but now you've got your own business. Tell us what what are you doing now? And why you think? Yes, later in life is great.

Mark Campman: 4:02

Yeah. So let me let me give you my ideas here. So in the the end of the 2010s Yeah. So 2009 2010 I'd been in marketing, working for large corporate organizations working for startups. And I had a feeling of I've been there I've done that. Yes. So I am repeating myself. And I sort of felt I've achieved my ceiling. I don't want to run an organization with hundreds of people. I am a marketing expert, and a social media expert. And that's what I want to want to develop. And the company that I then work for, didn't give me that space. So we're talking 2010 now, and then I hit that magic moment that most people in business will get in their 50s they will, they will get that moment. What am I doing? Where am I going? Am I going to go? Am I going to be on autopilot for another 10, 15 years until I retire? Am I going to continue commuting to London for two hours a day until I retire. And right at that moment, I saw a video on YouTube from Steve Jobs. And it was the video and I recommend everybody, you may want to add it to the show notes. So it was a video where Steve Jobs actually announces that he had cancer. It was his inauguration speech at Stanford University. And in that video, he makes the famous statement 'live everyday, like it's the last day of your life'. And I, I said, am I living everyday like it's the last day of my life. And I said 'Definitely not'. I didn't like my job. I was commuting two, three hours a day, I said, this is not what I want. Now, I also had a bit more financial freedom. So I had the opportunity. And I had the freedom to decide and to look deep inside my heart and said, If I can follow my passion, what would I want to do? And what I wanted to do after some deep soul searching, I said for me, 'Now it's the time to shoot start to start sharing my experience'. Because I've got tons of experience. I've got global experience, I've worked in every continent of the world, I'd worked in every culture in new worlds. I knew technology inside out, I knew social media inside out, digital marketing inside out. Yep. And that is what I want to share. So I started my little training company, Markcampman.com. On the 1st of August 2010. In Reading embarks, here in the UK. And my office was my living room. Yep. And I started to connect first, I started to put together a two hour social media training, you know how to use social media for business. And then I started to connect with local businesses. I went to the Chamber of Commerce meetings, I went to networking events. And there's quite a few of those in the UK. And that's where I sort of started handing out a flyer to our social media training in my living room, 25 pounds, come and join. And I still have to defeat that I ran those training up in my living room. And people came for five people. But soon, people said, Mark, what you're doing in your living room? Why don't you do it in our boardroom? Yes. So then that took me from the living room to the boardroom. So we're all of a sudden I was training individuals. Yeah. There were actually I was training management teams. Yep. So that's how we sort of started this. I started to get traction here. Yep. And then. So that was a really good platform to start. And then I got into a kind of a training academy, where I had the opportunity to deliver eight weeks of a sort of an eight week training program to people on social media.

Jim James: 8:15

So is this the was the simply. Was this the simply learn project?

Mark Campman: 8:21

Not simply learn got much later, this was just a local sort of, sort of school. Yeah. And that was offering education to adults and to businesses. So the essence here was overdose eight weeks of training, I developed eight steps. Yeah, and eight steps to set your business up for social media. And each step was one of the training sessions. Now why is this so important? And that is a takeaway. I want to give people when I started to present those eight steps. People in the class at the end said Mark fantastic, those eight steps, but I don't have time to implement them. Can you do that for me? Yeah. So what started as a training sort of business for myself, so now turned into a consultancy business. Yep. So and that is a great way to move and to start your own business in a way you want to share your experience. Start with training, but that then move into a consultancy. Yeah. If you start developing an approach,

Jim James: 9:27

Would you say? What would you have said that the secret sauce there was to create an identifiable stage because that seems to be these days, kind of the currency online is Here's your problem. Here are three steps, five steps, a quantifiable number and a defined output. So do you think for people that are consultants with a specific knowledge, it's this code of vacation, that's key?

Mark Campman: 9:52

Yep. And that is because you know, this is a it is kind of a umbrella for everything that you do. When you give people a very tangible sort of concept on how to implement the recommendations that you're that you're making to them. Now there is another step into this. Yeah. But before I go into this next step, which is an important part, I just want to share one more thing very important in the development of my business was obviously to develop myself as an expert in my fields. And being a social media expert. I found out the I obviously started using social media, to develop my to develop my online reputation. So I started having a website, I started to blog, I started to podcasting. I had videos, I was very active on LinkedIn. And people say LinkedIn and social media. It doesn't work. It doesn't generate leads for you. But it does. Yeah, after I think in 2012, I had a lady connecting with me on LinkedIn. She said, Mark, I don't know you. But I see you're a social media trainer. And I'm based in Dubai. Do you want to run social media training for us? Yeah. And I, and there was just a lead that came in through LinkedIn. So I connected with her is that of course I'm interested. So I struck a deal with them. And that was in 2012. I've been in Dubai seven, eight times since. Yeah, I'm now considered a social media experts for the Middle East. We had somebody from the Chamber of Commerce of Cairo attending the course. She said, Mark, you have got to come to Cairo? Yes. So because you need to train our customers.

Jim James: 11:45

And Mark, if I just cut you off, too. So can you just give us some idea of the sort of numbers, what do you think are fees that can be charged? Because this court is also about these podcasts around the numbers? Usually around about 25 pounds in your living room? If you're going to do buy? What sort of fees Do you think can be charged by consultants? trainers per day? Or per course?

Mark Campman: 12:12

Yeah, good question. Depends on the markets that you're in Dubai, they have plenty of money there. So I'm certainly in the 1500 to 2000 pounds a day bracket, and they are also prepared to to pay for your travel time. Okay. Yes. So that was very profitable for us. UK is different. Yeah. So you can use very competitive and for it could be anywhere between 800 to 1500 pounds a day for you. When you go into online training, it becomes more competitive. So, you shouldn't be afraid, on the asking good prices.

Jim James: 13:04

Nothing. That's that's a key key learning as well as the the knowledge that you've accumulated and the experience plus your ability to communicate that has it has a value, ultimately, the 1000 to 1500 pounds per day to an organization. Yeah. And have you found? Have you found that it more profitable to sell to companies than to individuals? Because obviously, that's a change as well, you've wanted to work with individuals, but you've gravitated back to companies profitable or you enjoy it more?

Mark Campman: 13:41

Yeah, I think businesses is obviously more profitable. They've got more money than, but it's all a matter about volume as well. Yeah. And that's where you start need to build your reputation. So the more reputation you get, the more companies will come to you and said, hey, I've seen you here, or I've heard you there. So it's important that you're getting on the speaker platform. And another very important thing that I did, and I can recommend that highly to people who want to start your own business in the consultancy area, is start to document your knowledge. And basically in publishing your own book. Yep. So I took my eight steps, and I've summarized them in sort of condense it into five steps. And I will develop a three day course for those five steps of how to set your business up on social media. I recorded the course. I then gave the entire video to a transcriber and that person tends to transcribe the entire course for me. Okay, I locked myself in a room for three weeks. And I edited the transcribed text. And that was my book.

Jim James: 15:05

Yeah. Right. And from a practical point of view again, Mark. So how do you find the transcription service? And what did that cost you?

Mark Campman: 15:14

Well, if I'd known then what I know now it wouldn't have cost me anything. Because what you can do is when you upload a video on YouTube, Google will automatically transcribe it for you.

Jim James: 15:27

Oh, will it Really? Wow. Because otherwise you can use like, rev.com? Or Otter?

Mark Campman: 15:33

Yeah, I think I paid something like 200 quid at a time. 200 pounds, but now I would upload it on YouTube, in the transcription, YouTube will transcribe it, you can download the transcription, and then you can edit it.

Jim James: 15:47

That's useful. I didn't know that because that's very useful. Okay.

Unknown: 15:51

So the book that I published two years ago is called Flirtonomics. To attract date and love your customers on social media.

Jim James: 16:04

Does your wife does your wife mind that type of

Mark Campman: 16:09

And FLIRT is the five step approach? Yes. So the five step approach, FLIRT is an acronym focus, listen, integrate, reach out and track. Amazon. So if you search on Amazon, you will first search for Mark Campman or flirtonomics. You will, you can find to book and it's that to me has been one of the most valuable assets in further developing my business. Because all of a sudden, you're in when you're speaking at a conference, for instance, you're no longer mark and men social media experts. But your mark and men author off. Yeah, and that nice a big difference. Okay. Yep. So that is sort of the third 10 years. Yeah, that's brings me to today. Yeah. And

Jim James: 17:04

Tell us about today, then, what are what are you doing now? Because what, uh, what I'd like to instead of five minutes we've got left is to talk about maybe the three behaviors that you found that make a difference to you?

Mark Campman: 17:16

Well, it's interesting to see what if you look at my career of the 40 years? Yeah. So I'm now about to start my, my 40th year. So first 10 year was large corporate. Second 10 years was international marketing. Yeah, third 10 years was my own my own business. Yes. So I'm now in the next stage of my career is how do I want to? What do I want to do now? Yeah, where do I want to go? And I think that is another important stage that because, you know, it is also we're not getting younger. Yeah. And I have not given a reminder. Yeah.

Jim James: 18:04

I thought my knees are reminding, but now you're reminding me of that too. Okay.

Mark Campman: 18:09

But you know, it's, if I look at it, I'm doing more of my work online. So and do more online training. And that's, for instance, while I do with simply learn where you and I sort of reconnected as well, yeah. But I'm now at this stage. You know, am I going to do this for another 10 years, because I love what I do. And I don't want I'm not seeing myself retiring until I'm 70. So I see the last for last 10 years another big change. And one of the things that I'm doing now is I've got a house in Marrakech in Riyadh and I developing SAS hotel SAS bed and breakfast. And that is a completely different direction. But obviously that is a very rewarding direction. And I can actually everything that I do that I've done all on digital marketing and social media, I can actually now implement it for myself as well. In my in my react. Yes,

Jim James: 19:17

That's a great and I think that's it that's a great point, isn't it that now you can start to build a lifestyle around where you want to live and the skill sets you've got enable you to generate recurring income? Yeah. Through through that asset that you've whatever that we've got another, another silverfox in, in Indonesia, building out houses and then using what he's learned from his career to sustain himself later on there might sounds that you've got everything organized. But what about mistakes because I know you to be perfect, but maybe it share with us. What would you say have been some one or two things that you've done that you I would say you ideally didn't do somewhere you spent time or money that didn't add value to you.

Mark Campman: 20:07

Yeah, you know, when you drive your business with, with passion, the process sometimes sort of it bit sort of on the on the back burner, and particularly the process of developing a new business, because that is brief, if you start your own business is what everybody will experience. Yeah. And that's also the topic for your next your next session on the mastermind, is how can you guarantee that you have this cash flow that you don't have to worry about next month or being next month's bills? And if you are busy and enjoying what you do, and you have lots of clients, yeah, then there's no need to focus on business development and getting new clients. And yeah, and that's where you need to get a process in place, because there will be a state there will be situations that you have fewer clients than you would like to have. Yeah. And then that leads me to start going into business development mode again. So we say that freedom is busy serving your clients.

Jim James: 21:19

And would you say that it's a mistake that you yourself, what would you say would be a mistake that you've made? I think it would have been a too much passion and not enough process?

Mark Campman: 21:29

Yeah. Too much passion, not enough process? And also, maybe too much individual? Yes. So because I've had various opportunities to, to start an owner to to sort of, to grow into a business with more people. Yeah. And that could well have turned out to be very successful. But I wasn't that keen on doing that. So I may have missed some opportunities there. Right.

Jim James: 22:08

So you stayed at a state a bit of a loner? Can you just share with us about your relationships? This is always one of the parts of the this conversation that we'll be trying just talk about how you've retained because businesses one, you just tell us just briefly, we've got about a minute and a half left in terms of the relationships and how you keep that side of your life together.

Mark Campman: 22:29

Yeah, so the, throughout my, my international work, I started build a family and the whole family followed me to the us back to the Netherlands, back to England, we had four sons, in the process of doing so. But one thing that he did go at a cost, yeah, the career because at the end of sort of the third decade, of my running my career, I split up with my partner. And that was also the periods that I started to reinvent myself, and we're talking about in late 2010, early 2000s, sort of in 2011 2012. And that coincided with me starting up my own business, and I now remarried with, with a lovely Malaysian woman, and with a completely different perspective, on relationships, and having a lot more time to invest in relationships as well with my wife, with my children. And lwt's be honest. Yeah, when you are running an international career, you don't have you're more focused on your career than on your, on your relationships. And that, yeah, I paid a price for that. But I reinvented myself and I'm in a much better space now that I was said that I was done when it comes to my personal relationships.

Jim James: 23:59

Great. Now, Mark, thank you for that. And can you then share with us with your experience? What would be one practical takeaway of running a business not not a social media takeaway, but a, you know, a Mark Campman Enterprises, how you run your life and your own business? What would be like the one thing you've learned, or the one thing that you think is giving you the most success?

Mark Campman: 24:22

The Well, there's one other video that has been a, a sort of a thread throughout my running my own business, and that is a video from Simon Sinek. And it is called start with why. And they actually put it in the show notes as well. Instead of most people and most businesses, they start with what and then they make and what they do and then they make them to why they do it. But they're not talking about the why are they doing this? Yep. So Amen. And his proposition is you have to you have to start with why are you doing What you do? If you can find that why, then that will give so much more satisfaction in the work you do. My personal Why is I want to inspire people to learn continuously. If I see people learn, then if I can inject to the process of getting those people to learn continuously, that gives me the biggest satisfaction. That gives me a bigger satisfaction than getting a massive order. Yeah, I want to inspire people to learn. And that is, that will be my main takeaway. Yes, start with the why you do what you do.

Jim James: 25:40

Mark, that's great. And I think your passion has come across there on the Why and you've always been someone who's had a lot of inspiring thoughts. So it tells where we want to find out about you mentioned Markcampman.com. Yep, they're also they can find you on LinkedIn, I think is Mark

Mark Campman: 25:55

Yeah, that's correct. So markcampman.com, Campman. gives you everything I do. on LinkedIn as well on Mark Campman. There is the, I'm on Instagram as well. And there's no rita ritarussia.com. So lot of places where you can can fi d me.

Jim James: 26:14

Great, man, thank you so much. been a pleasure to chat with you today. And thanks for sharing.

Mark Campman: 26:19

Okay, it's been a pleasure. Thank you

Unknown: 26:24

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