How to avoid podcast fade, building your own brand and making sales using your show.

Jim James: 0:00

Hello and welcome to this episode of the UnNoticed show today. I've got Sebastian Rusk joining me all the way from sunny, Florida, Sebastian. Hi, welcome.

Sebastian Rusk: 0:08

What's happened in Jim. Thanks for having me, buddy.

Jim_James: 0:10

Well, anywhere that has got a football team owned by a former British player should be on the show, but you're on the show. Not only cause proximity to David Beckham but also because you're a podcast specialist and have been for a long time. So tell us Sebastian, 5,000 new podcasts have been registered with Buzzsprout in the last month. You're an expert. How do people start a podcast and more importantly, keep one going.

Sebastian Rusk: 0:36

It comes down. Number one to why you're starting a podcast. Once you get clear with your why as with a lot of things in like business decisions, life decisions, what's the why behind actually doing something. I think when you find a true, authentic space of your why, which is, I've got a story to tell, I've got value to bring to the world. I know that if I'm able to communicate X, Y, and Z or a B, and C, it's going to inevitably impact the listener for the better it's going to allow me to do fill in the blank. Getting clear on why you want to start a podcast is first and foremost, I think the next thing in line is making sure that you're in line with your own level of commitment. Are you willing to do the work that needs to be done in order to launch the show? Continue to produce the show and continue to grow the show. All three components have to work simultaneously, or you're inevitably going to be headed to the podcast graveyard. So 5,600 new podcast registered on. Buzzsprout excellent. Talk to me about the end of the talk to me at the end of the month, or talk to me at the end of next month, because. Statistics will still tell us that the average show doesn't make it past, say seven to nine episodes. So last year, by the end of the year, we had roughly, I don't know, a million podcasts in apple iTunes, or apple podcasts, whatever they're calling it this week. And by the end of the year, there was around 850,000. So there was 150,000 show. Off the went to into pod fade. If you will, just based on shows that did not continue. I see it all the time. I'm in the business of helping people get to the finish line to start a podcast. Our biggest challenge for the past five years has been figuring out how to get somebody to continue. And stay committed to what they originally did. So we're very careful when we're identifying shows. We want to potentially launch making sure that they understand not only the micro work that's involved with the macro.

Jim_James: 2:38

Yeah, Well and you've got a background an M.C. and you shared that your father was a DJ as well on radio 30 years. So you've got a background in, in audio and entertainment. How important do you think it is that people that want to start a podcast? Not only have a why, but have a personality that's suited. For podcasting, is there a type of person that should be doing and a type of person who should stick to writing or other forms of marketing, do you think.

Sebastian Rusk: 3:05

I think if this is something that you want to give a shot to that you should definitely do it. You shouldn't let anybody stand in the way of being able to do that. I think it's important to understand that I did grow up in a radio station, but that's because my dad would drag me there on weekends. Tracks for the ads that he would go sell to local businesses. And when it was relevant to have a kid cut the track, I would do it in exchange for a happy meal at McDonald's. I was never excited about it. And I never had any desire to follow in his footsteps by any stretch of the imagination at all. However, like a buddy told me on the golf course a few months back as I shared this story with him, man, Sebastian, our genes sure are powerful. Aren't they? So sometimes what we don't even see. as part of our upbringing or what we're exposed to ends up being a component to what, where we ended up. I wanted to find my place in the digital world of social media five years and uh, decided to pivot while staying in the digital marketing digital space and do it with podcasting, just so happen. I grew up in a radio station, but I knew like I did when I started my first company in 2010, that I knew more about social media than the average bear. And it that in my book that I had no idea how it was going to make money when I first started in 2010. But the first advantage that I had was knowing more than the average person knows about Facebook or that Twitter thing, or what's going on YouTube. and I was able to successfully turn that into a business based on bridging the gap in between, I don't know to I know a guy that does know and he's taught me and now I do know.

Jim_James: 4:35

now with your business, which is a podcast launch lab. You help people to get their own podcast up and running, but most of us podcasting is not a full-time. Gig, right. It's something that we do as a complement to the rest of our lives. Right? How do you help people to embed podcasting as one part of an overall promotion or organizational strategy as opposed to going all in? Cause that's the temptation is to throw yourself a hundred percent to podcasting find you're not getting the listenership. You're not getting the revenue. You'll you lose heart rate quite quickly, maybe. How do you help people to kind of scale over time, Sebastian, their ambitions for that podcast and the role it can play in their overall life.

Sebastian Rusk: 5:21

I really just encourage them to focus on what's possible on the other side of actually getting the show launched and sticking with it. I always say, if you start a podcast today, This time next year, you're going to be so glad that you did, but if you look at it as number one, you're becoming a media company as a brand, starting a podcast, starting a YouTube channel. You are creating content on a platform that you control. If I called you 20 years ago and said, listen, I've got a spot on a local radio station where you can come in and talk for an hour about your business on Tuesday mornings. Do you want it? You wouldn't think about it. You wouldn't sleep about it. You would talk to a friend about it. You wouldn't procrastinate. You'd say heck yes. And you jump off the cliff and you figure out a parachute on the way down. Well, nothing has changed in 20 years, except the fact that it's easier to produce audio content. You don't have to go anywhere. You don't need anybody's permission. You make up the rules, you're creating the content and you can talk about anything you want. Is it about your business? Does it compliment your business? Whatever the case is, you can figure out a way to justify having this additional platform. It's not just context cause we think podcast. Well, what happens with the replay of the podcast and the video replay of the podcast and how old were you able to chop that up and dissect that into micro content to not only create more content? For our community, but also promote and advertise the episodes and the show. So I just think there's never been an easier time to start a podcast. There's never been an easier time to become a media company. And that sounds crazy to have an insurance office, have a podcast studio in it where it is created a platform where it interviews. People that are doing really cool things. And it ends up converting the business, not necessarily from that gueste but based on the content that's being created and the people that are actually consuming it. And to think that you can actually monetize that platform, the podcast your content efforts can pay for themselves. And then some is just another thought to sit with and go, wait a second. What else is possible with this whole podcasting digital landscape that we're currently experiencing? And it's only 2021.

Jim_James: 7:24

Yeah, really exciting. And it reminds me in the past, we used to create in-house newsletters, you know, for clients. And we used to self-publish newsletters and sell ads to suppliers and take those out. And podcasting is kind of the digital equivalent in a way. Now you talk about a couple of things there. One is about getting the content and getting the audience and monetizing. Do you want to just share maybe some basic elements of good content, because it also seems a bit like having a blank piece of paper. One of the challenges is, you know, what do you start to say? How do you plan content out Sebastian? Because for many people passed the two first two or three episodes, there can be a bit of a vacuum

Sebastian Rusk: 8:04

Well, that's why you don't want to go out alone. You sitting there trying to kill dead air by yourself because you think you're an expert is a bad strategy out of the gates. You can sprinkle in micro episodes of five or 10 or seven minutes long of something you're very passionate and feel important that fits within the context of the content you're creating. But a majority of your episodes should be interview based and you should be connecting with people that are smarter than you cooler than you have done more things than you are more successful than you, where you can actually serve those people by putting them. at the you know, putting the spotlight on them and then you're benefiting because you're the one hosting the conversation and creating the content. never ever go, what am I going to talk about on this podcast episode? Why? Because I'm going to be talking about whatever the guest does and how cool they are and how they got to where they're currently at. There is no lack of information on a complete stranger that I don't know, or somebody that I do know that I want to know more about. You know what I mean? Now, if I have to sit here and twiddle my thumbs on what I talk about next, I mean, if you asked me about my YouTube channel, I mean, that's a less than pleasurable experience, the reward is worth it to be able to sit down and be able to. Create content and know that YouTube is compensating. You every time you put a new piece of content on your website, eventually I have to get there. I worked at it for 16 months. I finally got into the creator program. I built the channel and now the, every piece of content that I do put up as being monetized. So then now I can really, in addition to people calling and saying, Hey, I've watched your video and I need help starting a podcast. So both of those components are information or enough information for me. To say, this is well worth my time to invest, even though I hate it. I don't know hate it, but it's a strong word, but it's again, less than pleasurable to go in. What's not less than pleasurable getting a check from YouTube and having a phone call from a complete stranger that said, I just binge watched most of your channel, still confused about starting a podcast and I want to hire you. So that makes it all worth it.

Jim_James: 10:00

Yeah. So I guess that idea of interviewing people more interesting than, well, I find that very interesting and very easy because everyone's had a more interesting life than me. Right? So I'm always finding people who are experts now, but how. Sebastian does one entice a, an a Lister, if you like onto a start-up show, is that important? Or can just be anybody? Because if you've got a show with almost no audience, how do you get someone on the show with you that other people won't listen to

Sebastian Rusk: 10:28

there's a little bit of luck and persistence involved with that process, but it's just a matter of when I, if I'm connected with somebody of notoriety and I've met them or connected with them in an event or whatever it might be. I've got a little bit of rapport built without, I'm usually got a point of contact in order to get. The conversation initiated to be able to get the person on that way now it is a significant test. Take a significant amount of time. Every time I've sat down with Gary V it's taken a little bit to be able to get him on the calendar and get them situated. And think I've done it several times before. It's been through different interactions. The first time was, is one of his books came out. He had a book signing locally. That's the first time we met back in 2011, I had a chance to sit down with him for like an hour which I thought was going to be a short little hallway interview. The second time. it was that events. I'm in the green room. He's the keynote speaker, I'm the MC for the event. and then one of the last time it was a couple years back he has his own event here in Miami, and I had the opportunity to spend the whole day with him and his team. So that relationship grew, but it was a lot of tweets, a lot of emails, a lot of connecting with his assistants, people that it was on his team being able to, and back 2011, it wasn't really the Gary V days. Same thing, a Marie Forleo another total just rockstar in the marketing space. She was three hotel rooms down for me at an event that I was the emcee for and she was attending I was on my way to a production meeting and we met in the elevator and doing a great job up there. And I'm like, can we finally get you on the podcast. And then two months later finally got her on. We had to reschedule it again because she was ill. So I those are just some examples of some note, notable individuals within the digital space that aren't easily accessible, but you've got to, you've got to work the angle as you get it. I don't know that continually asking and emailing is the way to go, because you got to understand these people get requests upon requests. And when you're reaching out to an, a list or B list or whatever, it might be someone of notoriety. You need to figure out what's in it for them. To take the time to be on your show, forget about what's in it for you. We already know that if you think they're going to go share the episode and the content, and you're going to be Insta famous, it's just not going to happen. You got to remember, it's going to be a very one-sided situation and there's going to be a lot of asking and a lot of falling on deaf ears before something actually happens. But I believe in a mix of luck and persistence. Jim is what gets you people of notoriety on your show and then also being in places like clubhouse, being on Twitter. Finding other angles, ankles, angles,

Jim_James: 12:56

as they the

Sebastian Rusk: 12:58

it? Yeah. Can he exactly it? Yeah. Can he exactly connecting with people on LinkedIn connecting with first, second, third generations who knows these individuals, who do you know, that knows these individuals, who do they know, et cetera. It's just not, a, it's a great mix of luck and persistence.

Jim_James: 13:15

well and charm as well. And I guess ultimate like, like any sport or any activity. Hey, there's a filter isn't it, if you don't have those qualities of persistence and charm and a bit of luck, then your show will fall by the wayside. Right? And that is what the audience are listening for. Those hosts that really want it to work and are willing to hustle hard enough to get those people on the show. Now you did mention as well, Sebastian. That you're able to monetize your show. That's a long way away from most people's expectation. How do you get to that stage? What would you say as a minimum viable audience that show hosts might need in order to start getting more than perhaps a cup of coffee?

Sebastian Rusk: 13:56

Well, I don't depend on my audience to monetize my show. So if you start right out of the gates, you can monetize your show right out of the gates, because I don't care. Who's tuning in and who's listening. Of course, it's great to have people download your show and to continue to grow the community. That is a goal of the show. The goal of being able to monetize the podcast is being able to have interesting conversations with interesting people that are doing really cool stuff that are creating content, but do not have a podcast. Cause guess what? Before or after the interview, I'm going to say, Hey Jim, when you started a podcast and if you've even had it remotely close to the chalkboard or on your list of to do's I'm your guy,

Jim_James: 14:28

Right. Okay. So are you then interviewing people that are potential customers, right? that's part of the strategy, right? Okay. That's a great idea. And I was talking to a guy called Stefan Thienpont over here. Also talking about if you're hosting a podcast, interview your potential customers and ask them questions and it's the chat on and

Sebastian Rusk: 14:46

step. That's a great strategy. I wrote a whole chapter about that in my book about. Being able to identify your ideal client. And a lot of the shows that we launch our sales reps, insurance reps, people that have a book of business that they're continuing to grow, and they want to be able to be not only recognized within their existing community, but then want to connect with. new people, if you're trying to sell employee benefits to a company, you're trying to get ahold of the CEO and you're cold calling this person every day, the gatekeeper has not lost their ability to do their job. In fact, the gatekeeper, I believe they firmly take a tremendous amount of pride in making sure that you never reached CEO, whatever, if your approach is hi, Mr. Gatekeeper. Hi Mrs. Gatekeeper, whatever the case is. I'd like to interview Mr. Or Mrs. CEO. That's a whole different conversation because now we're talking about an ego, we're talking about edification, we're talking about publicity, we're talking about additional exposure. And if you're smart about that and understand the ability to be able to embrace social selling through content, that's a winner, chicken dinner all day long.

Jim_James: 15:50

I love that winner chicken dinner. I haven't heard of that expression before Sebastian. That's wonderful. But I think that's a, that's an unspoken about aspect of podcasting. Is that actually podcasting. Can actually be a really good business development tool that, you know, we may not become Gary V or John Lee Duma and have, you know, 20, $30,000 worth of sponsorship from a software company per podcast episode. But you can sell your services by building your personal reputation and relationship. Right.

Sebastian Rusk: 16:21

And you can also productively prospect. So you're going after those CEOs, you want to sell stuff too while you're going after them to get them on your show and help them. Interview them about their biggest struggles that they have pretend to your solution, answer questions in real time, provide value to them, have them go well, this was different. He talked about me, made me sound awesome. And he helped me some issues when you're done with that, I was like, listen, Jim, I'd love to have a conversation about what we, that was a great dialogue we got into there. I'd love to expand that conversation. We've got a few solutions that I think may be a fit for exactly what you've got going in. If you're open to a conversation, oh, absolutely. Let me patch her right back through to what's it called get it scheduled.

Jim_James: 16:56

Yeah. So you're putting that person at the center of the conversation, rather than if you ring up about sales, you're putting your own company at the center of the conversation, not you really Sebastian.

Sebastian Rusk: 17:04

Correct.

Jim_James: 17:05

So you talked aswell about a YouTube, are you in favor of having a sort of a podcast is audio, and then having that on YouTube as a straight audio gram, or should you do two different ones? What's your view on that It can be double. The work because they're quite different mediums aren't they.

Sebastian Rusk: 17:22

Hey, you nailed it right there. No, I don't suggest that at all. And I know that I'm the it's the less than favorable opinion and that's okay. enough work With starting and continuing a podcast that when you throw a video component in, you are doubling the amount of work you have. If you think for a minute that you're going to take your archive video of your podcast on zoom and just post and pray on YouTube, you're being grossly negligent. That the reality of how YouTube actually works, YouTube works for it. People come to YouTube for two reasons to be entertained, to get questions answered. You can nail both of those. Well, you're really doing a great job, but it's usually one of the other, are you a resource channel to answer questions or do you entertain people? Those are the two components that you look at. So if you just post a podcast episode onto YouTube with no strategy behind a strategy, meaning, okay. First of all, it's a 45 minute interview. It's. I mean, YouTube is long form, but 45 minutes isn't that most YouTube videos are between, I would say five and 20 minutes max. I mean, I've had a few videos that are like 18 minutes. People were like, whoa, it's a little long there. So it is long form, but not that long. I would think that it, I will say if you have a video team and a video editor and all the resources ready to rock and roll by all means, go nuts. Get that video team, making sure that all hands are on deck capturing the video component of your podcast. Have them go to work, figure out a strategic title. It's SEO friendly that people actually search for on YouTube. There's other content around it. Have them create a thumbnail that pertains to the topic, making sure I all, every component, all the checklists of YouTube production is being done with that actual video component of the podcast. So if you're not going in there and not throwing an intro of some sort on, they're introduced to the topic, having something that's, the people actually search for. It's just a post and pray strategy that doesn't work. Nobody's got Justin Bieber's luck. Okay. And Justin probably didn't even know he had. That lucky there, that video just got uploaded one day of him playing the guitar and the rest is history, but I just don't think that's a lot of people look at Joe Rogan and, you know, any in any people of notoriety or celebrities. that start a podcast. Of course, they have a video company, they probably have a studio and they've got an entire team to produce everything. Their job is to show up and be the talent of it. That's not the average person focus on getting really good at creating and recording podcast episodes, interviewing people. And then if you want to introduce a video component, take the archive video and chop it up into small bits of micro content, micro videos that are 30 seconds to 60 seconds long with two or three keywords as a title that really pique people's interest. So number one, it becomes a piece of content, but number two, it's also a call to action to listen to the actual episode, you can create 2, 3, 4, 5 pieces of those out of a 20 or 30 minute episode and post those throughout the week until the next episode drops. That's a great way to introduce a video. If you're going to use YouTube and you really are adamant about it. I look at YouTube shorts, not the new feature. They just opened up it's 15 seconds, but actually creating a short that's one to two minutes long, but very impactful that you can post and you can do SEO research on, et cetera.

Jim_James: 20:31

So Sebastian Rusk, I think we'll stick to podcasting to the audio. I think that's more within my skillset and my timeframe. That's obviously within your skillset, if you want to find out more about you than we've had the chance to talk about just on the unnoticed show today, how can they find you Sebastian?

Sebastian Rusk: 20:46

I'd love to connect with you on LinkedIn. That's where I spend the majority of my time. Just look for me by name Sebastian Rusk, also Instagram I'm podcast launch guy. And if you're listening to this and you're thinking I wanna start a podcast, I just don't know where to start, or I have a podcast that is just not going the direction that I thought it would. I'd love to have a conversation with you and you can schedule a call with me by going to podcastlaunchlabnow.com. I'm sure Jim will include that in the show notes. So don't worry about writing it down right now.

Jim_James: 21:12

Yeah, I will put all of those in the show notes. Sebastian Rusk joining me all the way from Florida. Thank you so much for sharing your passion, your wisdom about podcasting today with us all today.

Sebastian Rusk: 21:21

Thank you, Jim, for the opportunity. I really appreciate it.

Jim_James: 21:23

Great. You've been listening to Sebastian Rusk all the way over in Florida. Thanks again for listening to this episode of the UnNoticed Show, do remember to subscribe? And also if you like the show, please do share it and rate it on your player. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the UnNoticed show. I wish you well.