80% Stop at the Headline: Kelsey Formost’s Top Tips for Headline Hits

Jim James (00:02.786)
Hello and welcome to this episode of The Unnoticed Entrepreneur. Now, you know, this is the show for any entrepreneur that really deserves to get more recognition for what they do. And one of the best ways to do that is with copywriting. But it's an art and it's a science. It's not something that very many of us can do properly. So I'm really delighted that today I have a guest who is a professional copywriter. Actually, she's an actress, big time big screen actress turned copywriter.

Kelsey Formost joining us from Santa Barbara today. Welcome to the show.

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (00:34.557)
Thank you so much, Jim. Happy to be here.

Jim James (00:38.37)
Well, we're happy to have you. You've got a company called Magic Words Copywriting. And according to you, Kelsey, people can increase their conversion rates by 300% with good copywriting. Some of us are verbal vomiters, you said, which sounds very polite. Some ideas in the headlight, I think I might be that person. So you're gonna help us to understand what makes great copy, converting copy.

Maybe help those of us that are in either one of those categories become a high converting copywriter and more than that. So Kelsey, welcome to the show. Tell us, how does copywriting make a difference to a business?

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (01:19.277)
Oh my goodness, what a wonderful question. I believe that copywriting is the unnoticed skill for entrepreneurs. It is a skill that you can have for life. Once you learn the principles, they don't change. It's not based on an algorithm. It's not based on an outside thing. It is based on human psychology. And when I work with entrepreneurs, one of the most surprising things to me

that they don't actually know the definition of copywriting. And as you said, copywriting is the art and science of getting a reader to take a desired action. So copywriting isn't just writing words. It is words with a purpose. And that purpose is the action that you want a reader to take. Some examples of actions could be to buy a product.

That's the most obvious. But they also could be to keep reading down the page, to click a button, to subscribe to an email list, to follow you on social media. Any action that you want a lead to take, you need copywriting that A, convinces them to take that action, but B, shows them exactly how to do it. And that is something that gets missed on so many websites,

social media posts, email campaigns, copywriting touches everything. When you think about everywhere that there are words that represent you, your brand, or your business, that's your copy. And you have an opportunity to use that copy to get your ideal customer to take the action you want them to take.

Jim James (03:12.054)
Kelsey, that's a wonderfully articulate definition of copywriting. And when I listen to you, I go, "Well, sounds simple. I can't believe I'm not doing that." But I'm not, plainly, I'm not doing it correctly. So what are some of the hallmarks and some of the techniques that we can use, especially as most of us are not wordsmiths, you know, most of us are not former, you know, actresses and have backgrounds in scripts and so on? What are the things that you can do to make your own copy?

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (03:21.497)
Hahaha!

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (03:34.379)
Hmm. Let's see.

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (03:39.188)
Yeah.

Jim James (03:40.043)
What can we do to get close to writing copy that gets people to take action?

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (03:45.221)
I love that. So you mentioned earlier verbal vomiters versus deer in the headlights, and that is a great place to start is by identifying which of those you are. 100% of people fall into one of those two categories. A verbal vomiter, which is most people, is someone who when they sit down to write, they feel anxious and they feel like they never quite get what they want to say out, and so

overcompensate. They write too much. They write too many words. They write bigger paragraphs, which nobody reads, and we'll get to that. And those people, I have a wonderful trick for you that I will share in just a moment. Dear in the headlights, which is fewer people, but just as potent of an anxiety, which is I don't know what to say.

I'm sitting here and I don't know what's going to convert, so I'm just going to like write something really quick. It's not going to be a lot and I'm just going to post it because I have to have something up, but it's usually much many fewer words, the minimalist, if you will. You have maybe an issue with being consistent. That's a big thing for deer in the headlights. Like you don't write very many emails.

There's also usually an element of I don't want to bother people with deer in the headlights. I don't want to oversell myself. I don't want to be annoying. If that resonates with you, then you're probably a deer in the headlights. So here is some tips and some tricks for both of these groups. Verbal vomiters, I want you to let your vomit fly and I want you to remember that there are

two people who sit down with you at the computer every time you write. There is the verbal vomiter writer, copywriter you, and there is the jerk editor you. When you sit down to verbal vomit, the jerk editor you is not allowed in the room. They can go outside, they can have a drink, they can take a walk. Let yourself verbal vomit all over the page. Then if you can physically print

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (06:10.705)
That's the best thing to do. But you can also do this virtually on the computer. Then once you're done verbal vomiting, take a break. Take a break from the screen. Go take a walk. Go watch a show. Be with your family. Whatever. Pet your dog. And then when you're ready, the editor, you, is allowed to come back in the room and they can sit down and highlight just the most important points. And you'll notice that you're repeating yourself.

That is one of the most incredible tools to see, what am I actually getting to? What am I actually trying to say? Highlight only the most important points, don't repeat yourself, and take those highlighted pieces, and that is the copy you publish. So that's a really good tip for verbal vomiters, especially if you are writing a website or writing a more lengthy email sequence. So that's the verbal vomiters trick.

Jim James (06:51.694)
Thanks for watching!

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (07:11.145)
For my dear in the headlights folks. For my dear in the headlights folks, you are going to love prompts and formulas. I highly recommend… I have some templates. I have some prompts. I have some formulas. Of course, you know, contact me if that's something that you need, but also you can do your own research. You can find people who can help you with this.

Jim James (07:14.698)
Yeah.

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (07:40.145)
jump start your engine and get you thinking differently. Get you thinking, okay, how can I communicate this idea that is inside of me and put it into a formula that I know is going to convert? That is something that is going to be extremely valuable for you.

Jim James (07:58.658)
Kelsey, okay, there's a lot of great content there. The idea of sort of projectile vomiting. I'm trying to get over that, that you then print that verbal vomit. But they do say that you write first and edit second rather than write and edit at the same time. So that's great, great advice. What about for the, you know, for me sometimes I look at it and I go, well, what is the most important point that I'd like to communicate?

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (08:03.959)
I'm sorry.

Jim James (08:27.35)
You know, so I'm working on a course for podcast guests, for example. And you will, what's the most important? Is it that the podcast guests might feel more confident about going onto podcasts? Is it that they might feel that they understand the technology? Is it that they will understand how to communicate better? How do you help people to determine which message is the most important? Because we've often got more than one and that's part of the problem, isn't it?

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (08:55.213)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes. Okay. So… Oh, there's so many ways I could take this. I will start by saying, define your entire business's value proposition. If you don't know what a value proposition is, the definition is the number one thing that you do or sell that your ideal customer already wants

that your competition doesn't offer or doesn't offer in the same way you offer it. That is the thing that I recommend people spend the most time refining. You're not going to get it right the first five, maybe even ten times. But answering that question, the number one thing you do or sell… So when people come to me, they're like, but I do five things. Great. What's the number one thing you do?

But my ideal audience wants 10 different things or like people have different pain points. Great. What is the number one thing they come to you with? What's the number one problem? What's the number one most frequently asked question? What's the number one thing that people are typing into Google to find your business? I have so much competition. There are so many copywriters. Great. What sets you apart from them?

And that can just be the tone. That can just be you. That can be the way people feel when they interact with you. Mine is that I help people who hate writing. That's my differentiator, right? That people come to me because they hate writing. They feel intimidated by writing and they're usually a small business owner. So I promise you, you can get there. You just have to sit with it. The number one thing you do or sell the number one thing that your ideal customer

already wants that your competition doesn't offer or doesn't offer in the same way. That's where I would start and I could expand on that but I want to give you an opportunity to respond.

Jim James (10:59.486)
No, well, Kelsey, and also you've mentioned you've got some giveaways and at the end of the show, we will give a link to Kelsey's website and some freebies that she's very generously offering to all of us to learn how to write either, you know, so that we're not a vomiter or a headlight. I always remember that. Yeah, I know. I've been fixed on that even though we really took about other greater things than that. Kelsey Formost as, you know, magic words, copyright over in Santa Barbara.

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (11:17.223)
That really stuck with you, Jim.

Jim James (11:30.634)
It sounds as though copywriting is part business strategy, part technique, art, and part psychology. Entrepreneurs on the whole are almost too busy. They may be making sales or have a cash flow. Which one should they focus on or how did they get clarity on which parts to focus on?

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (11:56.101)
Which parts of copywriting to focus on or which parts of their business? Yeah. Which parts of copy?

Jim James (11:58.77)
Yeah, that's right. Which parts of copywriting? Because they'll be busy, and you've articulated what people should focus on in the copy, but you've mentioned sort of different skills there, haven't you?

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (12:04.393)
Great. Yeah.

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (12:10.641)
Yes. Yes, absolutely. So the number one place I recommend people focus is headlines. And here's why. Eighty percent of people only read headlines. They don't even look at the body copy. They just read headlines. That goes for social media. That goes for websites. That goes for sales pages. That goes for emails. It goes for everything. Eighty percent of people only read headlines.

So when you know that, you can use that to your advantage and focus on your headlines answering the question that is in your reader's mind, what's in it for me. If you can think in that way, that is a way to think like a copywriter that has nothing to do with fancy formulas or scary technology things. This is just you sitting down and thinking. As your ideal customer,

what's in it for me? And you answer that question in the headline. You can also call that a hook if you want to. This is really applicable for subject lines of emails. And the first thing you say on social media, whether it is a video or a written post, the first thing that you say is the way that you capture attention. You have to focus on your headlines. If you can just get your headlines, right?

You're golden.

Jim James (13:40.966)
Wow. Okay, Kelsey, I think David Ogilvie as well talked about the power of headlines and advertising, didn't he, and that you've got to get people. Is there a formula or a tool that you recommend for people to structure those headlines because saying, oh, focus on the headlines, it's, oh, well then I'll just focus on headlines, but then we'll go away and go, hmm. So how do I do that? Guidance, please, Maestro, on how to create headlines.

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (13:47.506)
Yeah.

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (14:09.082)
Yes, yes, of course. Okay. So there are many headline formulas. There are so many hundreds of headline formulas that we could be here for hours. I do have a subject line generator that people can find on my website. It's under the templates page on my website, kelseyformost.com/templates. If you just want the formulas, download them. It's

probably my least expensive thing in my shop. I really recommend though, instead of getting stuck on formulas, to really think about the most asked questions from your ideal customer and answering them in one sentence. Also, it really depends on what type of form of communication that you are focusing on.

So right now I'll just talk about websites because if your website isn't accurately portraying who you are, who you serve, and how you serve them, then nothing else is gonna work. You need somewhere to send people where they immediately understand who you are, what you do, and why they should care. So let's talk about websites for a second. So headlines on a website.

Without getting into the specifics of the formulas, because that's something that anybody can look up, you can think about a funnel of awareness when it comes to your headlines. Here's what I mean by that. If you picture a funnel, right, it's big at the top and it's small at the bottom. At the top of the funnel, which is the very first headline on any page, they have a low level of awareness of who you are and what you do. So that headline needs to be

clear over clever. It needs to be like really, really specific. This is who I am. This is who I help. This is why you should care. And then each headline as you move down the page, read back just the headlines. And if someone just read those five headlines, would they know who you are, what you do, who you help, and how you help them? If you answer those questions on…

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (16:27.949)
in your headlines, on your webpage, at the bottom of the funnel, they will have a high level of awareness. They will know this person is for me or is not for me. And they will have a clear call to action at the end of that page, a big old button that tells them exactly what to do. Great. So now I'm aware of who this person is, how they help, what they do, who they are, how they help, and who they help.

And now they're telling me I can subscribe to their email list because they're perfect. Or now they're telling me I can enroll in this program because it solves my problem. That's the most sort of 30,000 foot view of headlines that I can give you without getting into like the exact formulas because you guys can look that up.

Jim James (17:16.118)
Well, I think that's, yeah, Kelsey, I think that's a fabulous formula. And maybe also we just sort of write the headlines first and do the body copy later. Kelsey, now, as you know, unfortunately, we don't have too long and you've got a huge wealth of experience. We'll guide people to your website at the end and you kind of got some freebies there. But you're also an entrepreneur. You've managed to make a transition from being an actress and you're even on Rotten Tomatoes. I mean, it's amazing, right? So,

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (17:24.517)
Mm-hmm.

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (17:32.841)
Thanks for watching!

Jim James (17:45.214)
You're proper famous. Yeah, yeah, proper famous. Yeah. And so, but now you've got a new business from 2018. Just take us through what was the challenge and how did you solve that from a getting noticed perspective? And maybe you already had enough fame that you were able to transition to the new business without any challenges.

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (17:45.361)
That's what you know you've made. Yeah.

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (18:06.225)
Oh, what a great thing to talk about. So I started out as an actress, however, and I was successful. On paper, I had the very glamorous life. I was on American television in shows like Modern Family and New Girl, if anyone has ever heard of those. I started in a movie with Zac Efron. I had the on paper successful life that many actors never see

the success, like a tenth of the success that I had at that time. However, I was sitting on the set of an Emmy-winning Netflix show with a starring role, creating a character from scratch. It was every single thing on my bucket list that I said that I wanted and I still wasn't happy. And I really think it's important for me to acknowledge that the reason I became a copywriter

unfulfilled in my previous career. And I believe that is the common thread with most entrepreneurs. Something in a previous life or a previous career was unfulfilling to them and they set out to very bravely to start something from scratch that was fulfilling to them. So I came to copywriting with nothing. I had no clients. I had no...

I mean, I had written scripts before, I had written screenplays, but I had never written for businesses. And the reason that I got into copywriting in the first place was I actually took about a year deciding what is it that I want to do, what is the direction I want to go. And I had a friend who was a copywriter for a very fancy, famous business coach who I can't name because she has an NDA. And I

was in awe because what she was doing was she was helping mostly women, entrepreneurs, gain financial freedom and start their own businesses and do the thing that I was exactly trying to do, which was create a fulfilling life for myself. So I came to copywriting from that place and I think it's really important to acknowledge that, that I started with nothing from square zero, totally blind.

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (20:33.161)
Only knowing that the core of what I wanted to feel was fulfilled and helping people. From there, I built a business really quickly of one-on-one freelance copywriting work. And it was mostly small businesses, mostly, as I said, women entrepreneurs. And my calendar was full. I was so burnt out. By the end of the year, I was just like, I can't write any more words. I'm so burnt out.

And yet what I'm noticing is these people are hiring me over and over and over again because they feel too intimidated to sit down and write their own copy. They just don't know how, they just don't know the basics. But if they learned the basics, they could be doing 80% of this themselves. So I decided I was going to create the course that I wish that I had as an entrepreneur of what is the most important information I need to know.

Not to teach me how to become a copywriter, but to teach me how to write copy for my business and to teach me how to think like a copywriter when I write emails for my business so that I, the business owner, don't have to spend $10,000 a year on a professional copywriter. And also, I want to put a little asterisk here about AI because that is something that I'm getting a ton of questions about right now.

And I think AI is great. Use it by all means. A lot of copywriters are scared of it. I am not. But what I will say is, you still need a human being to know if it's good. You, the entrepreneur, need to know if the copy being written, whether it's by you, by a professional human copywriter, or by an AI copywriter, you still need to have the skill to know if it's good and if it sounds like you.

So I built an entire business going from freelancing to one to many, which is courses, templates, and then I have a membership as well. So that's it in a nutshell.

Jim James (22:42.83)
Look, and brilliant. What an amazing transition. Hats off to you and respect to and gratitude for what you're doing for my fellow unnoticed entrepreneurs. It's wonderful that you've come on and shared all this wisdom. If there's one thing that you might have called out as even sort of a mistake, you've had what seems to be sort of a fairy tale journey here as an entrepreneur. But is there one thing, Kelsey Formost,

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (22:53.001)
I'm sorry.

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (23:07.143)
Hahaha

Jim James (23:12.594)
that you'd share that on reflection you might have done differently or you'd recommend other people do differently when it comes to getting noticed.

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (23:21.709)
Yes. So many entrepreneurs are creative at heart. I certainly am. And I struggle with consistency and perfectionism because I have this idea in my head of what I want it to look like. And I have a hard time relinquishing control to somebody else and hiring out. So if I could name one mistake, I would say...

If I could go back and redo something, it would be hiring people to do the tasks I hate doing earlier because there was a good chunk in the middle of building my business where I was not consistent. My podcast was all over the place. I wasn't because I wouldn't hire an editor. My emails weren't very consistent because I was so precious about like it has to be perfect.

I wasn't doing consistent market research because, again, I wouldn't let go. This applies to so many different little places, but it adds up and it adds up and it adds up. Then before you know it, you've really lost control of the cart. I would say if there was any mistake that I would go back and correct, it would be to put systems in place that would keep me consistent

and keep me in my zone of genius and let other people do things that is their zone of genius.

Jim James (24:53.59)
Well, Kelsey, it sounds like a very large zone of genius to me. So that's brilliant. Thanks for letting us inside your zone. If people want to find out more about you, Kelsey, and Magic Words Copywriting, and look at your movie back catalog and so on as well, or join your community, we've got over 8,000 people who are interested in writing copy for their own businesses. Where can people find you, Kelsey?

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (25:18.897)
Yes, I would start with kelseyformost.com/freebies. So on that page you will see three main freebies that I have that will help you with specific aspects of writing copy. The first one is my signature freebie. It's three copywriting tricks to 3x conversions. And I don't remember if we said or not, but copywriting

Um, on average increases conversions by 300%. So that's triple the results just by changing the words, just by changing the words on your website, 300% average better results. Amazing. I love that. Um, so that is my signature freebie. The second one is all about how to start and grow an email list because that is something a lot of entrepreneurs really struggle with. And then the third

is how to write a Instagram bio. And honestly, that can translate to many different types of bios, but because the Instagram bio is such an important aspect of business, Instagram is basically your business card now. I was featured in Refinery29 on an article about that. I think it's so true. People don't ask for business cards anymore. They ask, what's your Instagram? If your Instagram bio is not buttoned up,

you are losing business. Like, it's not just followers, you're losing money, you're losing business. So that is another freebie that I really recommend people download and check out. And then if you want to join me on Instagram, that's where I really let my freak flag fly. You can get to know me more as a person as well as an entrepreneur, and that's at Kelsey.Writes on Instagram.

Jim James (26:53.154)
Wow.

Jim James (27:07.022)
Kelsey Formost, well thank you. That's education. I didn't realize Instagram was so important. I shall have to take the picture of my dog and myself off Instagram and try and upgrade mine. Kelsey Formos, thank you so much for sharing so much wisdom and an amazing story on lots of levels with me and my fellow Unnoticed Entrepreneurs. I thank you for joining us from Santa Barbara.

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (27:15.613)
Ha ha ha.

Kelsey Formost- Magic Words Copywriting (27:29.021)
Thank you so much for having me.

Jim James (27:32.29)
Well, hasn't it been a pleasure? And not every day do we get to meet, you know, movie stars, but this show, we bring it all. We, we bring it all. So look, thank you to Kelsey for joining us and thank you for joining Kelsey and me today on the Unnoticed Entrepreneurial Show. I'm sure that you've taken a huge amount away and there's actually, to be honest, so much that she's included today. But, you know, think about headlines is one of the main points that I've taken away and the simplicity.

And thinking about what's in it for the person reading it is another key part. We're so often right about what we want people to know about us that we forget about. It's actually what they're looking to find that we need to share. So that and much more. Thank you for tuning into this episode of the Unnoticed Entrepreneur with me, Jim James. Hope you've enjoyed it. If you have, please do follow the show and please do review the show. And until we meet again, I just do encourage you to keep on communicating.