Become the Perfect Podcast Guest: Insights from Josef Schinwald

Jim James: 0:23

Hola, welcome to this episode of the Unnoticed Entrepreneur. Today we are going to magnificent Mallorca in Spain, to meet Joseph Schinwald, who runs a company called Guest Experts on Air. This is a podcast agency I've been working with for many years. Joseph, welcome to the show.

Josef Schinwald: 0:41

Hello Jim, it's such a privilege to be on your world-class show.

Jim James: 0:45

Well, it's a privilege to have you, because you are the man that brings experts to shows like mine. Today we're going to talk about what makes a good guest on a show and how you help them to get prepared, and also what you look for in a podcast, so that people like your clients can understand which are the good shows to go on and not to waste their time on the shows that are not going to bring them an ROI. So, joseph, tell us about Guest Experts on Air and how you help business experts get noticed.

Josef Schinwald: 1:18

Well, we focus only on high-profile professionals. I take others also, as long as they have a real compelling story, a good framework and good expertise and if it's really unique to the table of discussion on podcasts, so I know it will be interesting. Maybe they don't have that perfect ecosystem of profitability in the background on the website or the marketing funnel, but mostly I'm just rational. If you get really fantastic experts who have really something, a message and they're passionate about it and they're interested in many, many high-end podcasts, then I also get the high-end podcast for them. So that's basically my philosophy and I don't have to prepare them because they're already very experienced in what they do. They had already keynote speakers, they wrote a book, so they have a good framework and they have been on podcasts before.

Jim James: 2:20

Now we're sharing for those people that can see it. We're sharing some of the podcasts that Joseph gets his clients on. But, Joseph, tell us, what do you look for in a podcast? Because, as you said, there are literally millions of podcasts but not all of them are actually very active and they're not necessarily all the right profile for the level of clients that you've got. So how do you decide what kind of show to position your clients on?

Josef Schinwald: 2:52

There are many indicators. We use between 7 and 12 indicators to determine whether it's a good podcast. First of all, it has to be an active podcast, so when they have every week episodes. And then there are those indicators that come from algorithm, like listen the world score the score whether they end up top 1%, 2%, 3%, 0.5% of the podcast out there. So I only take those ones. You are number three, so you're one of those. And listen score also how many people listen to it. But it's very important to look at the guests, the quality of guests they have interviewed, and sometimes I look at the social media platform of the host and also I look at their website and how they present it in social media and how they are presented on the website. So it's just the main distinction I would say, jim, is when you're looking at the podcast landscape, there are three millions out there, 3 million podcast. Only 400,000 are interview based and from those 400,000, there are only 40,000 active, really active ones. That means they have always new episodes coming out and they have worked, like you, many years. They have built up their audiences. They come to 300. I think you have 600 episodes already. You're very busy and very diligent and disciplined here. But the quality goes up, of course, because most of the podcasts they have may be 10, 20, 30 interviews. And then they go, of course, to these podcast matching services. They build up their audiences. But what happens also is you see the interviews, they are often spaced out so they are not good for the excerpt, not good for their audiences, because they don't subscribe when there are topics that are always different and completely in wild directions. They like to subscribe to a specific podcast where they every week they hear something specifically about the topic of interest and they are subscribed to several podcasts a week usually and they can go in different directions. They can be sports, they can be business leadership, they can be spirituality. However, they want that unique focus of the podcast host. That's why they subscribe. And so I look at that, because when my clients go on a podcast show, just imagine what can happen is that let's say I chose an average podcast that first of all, the podcast host doesn't ask for any questions because they might not even wrap around their head, around the head of the interviewer. They don't understand that expertise. So it's very frustrating for my clients to go on. I like it when they come back to me and say I had a wonderful experience to talk a lot about the host and they say he asked me a real nice question. It was such a great atmosphere, I loved it. That's what I want and I want them to reach audience, because you have the distinction to go to very niche town podcasts. Sometimes that's good if you get a thousand listeners, but many times you get very, very few listeners. It's a roll of ties. You're sitting there, you're talking and you don't even know where the people actually listen to it. Then you have the high end, where their podcast they have up to a half a million downloads one episode, or at least let's say 10,000 to 50,000 per episode. But then when you're an expert let's say you're helping people overcome limiting beliefs or a certain post-symptom, whatever it is what the expertise is you are when it's more or less right that podcast, but it's a very popular one. The audience will be in your target and there will be your wider audience and that is important. So the numbers are very important. How many people do we talk to?

Jim James: 6:52

Joseph, that's great. You said you're, excuse me, seven to 10. So, thank you. I'm glad that I'm meeting some of the criteria so that you're still sending me some of your amazing guests.

Josef Schinwald: 7:01

Thank you for accepting them, because they are all very happy about the interview with you.

Jim James: 7:06

Oh well, thank you and me. That's absolutely mutual. So, Joseph Schimlund, with your business, one of the things I'd love to ask you is your view on whether guests should pay to be on podcasts, because that's a little bit of an industry question. I'd love to get your perspective on that.

Josef Schinwald: 7:26

Yeah, you see the 40,000 active podcasts with almost 3 million exists, 400,000 interview based on 40,000 only like the top level ones. Many of them are actually run by influencers. No-transcript, they don't have an advertising in the but they do determine often the kinds of guests. Let's say, if it's a big consulting company, then they don't want competitors to appear on their guests. And I have these great experts in business management or business leadership and they don't. They're not accepted sometimes because they see, okay, that's not from our circle of influence and even though it would be a great guest. Like you know somebody who just published Wall Street Journal three books, number one and USA Today, and all this and they are every airport all over. It's a fantastic book, but they don't take them because there's the self-interest. Now if we get a podcast, they say I would like to ask $200 to episode. That's fine because I feel, I feel personally, because it's a lot of work to edit it and they have the outsourced, they need a freelance to do it. This is a lot of work actually, but it doesn't look good for the guest. The guest wants to be invited if he's high ranked, let's say a real caliber. They want to be as the expert, not because they pay for it. They pay our service because we do the heavy lifting for them. They are represented. They don't want to have that image that they're doing this every month 30 hours for themselves because they are supposed to be very busy with their clients and with their activities. They just want to put on their headset and talk about the expertise. That's what they need, because everybody needs continuous marketing. However, when we get these people asking for a lot of money because they won't, they say the waiting list is two years and if you want to be right on the show then you can pay us $2,000. Then the guest asks us should I pay it? I say, well, sorry, there are many out there and we get you another one. If you want, please pay. If you really like the podcast so much, pay for it, but it's not very professional. I think the podcast posts have been developing new models of profitability more and more, and the right ones will appear and so it will be very lucrative. But the last years they've been still struggling with all these things. How do I make money with?

Jim James: 9:53

it. So it's interesting from your perspective. As an agency that's booking, you recognize there are costs attached, but ultimately the clients, the guests on my show, would see it sort of devaluing. It becomes advertising rather than PR, doesn't it, joseph?

Josef Schinwald: 10:08

Yes, everybody could go on a show, a good one, and if the people find this out, you know, and then it's not a real good client because he just wants to sell his products, he wants to pitch and nobody wants to spend their listen to an episode. They want to hear about the deep expertise, they want to hear about a compelling story and they want to hear about a framework and they want to have entertainment and all this, but not somebody who just goes there to you with an entitlement. You know, I paid $3,000 for this and I can talk.

Jim James: 10:36

Now I'm talking only about my product, yeah, and I think it's a very real difference that if people pay, they expect to display right, and yet if you're listening to a podcast, you want to be told not sold. So fundamentally, it doesn't work. So, joseph Schimwell, that's good insight. You did mention about the work you do for your clients. Why don't you just explain what guest experts on air does as a package and also explain how affordable it is for people?

Josef Schinwald: 11:04

Compared to other. No, you need traffic. You need paid traffic usually in order to get traffic. We all know this from advertising, from marketing, it's an investment If you do it right. It's a cost if you do it wrong. I remember Peter Drucker, one of the most famous and you know management consultant and author of books. He said advertising marketing. I would say first, the purpose of a business is to create the client, to create the customer. It's the purpose of a business. And he says that all things, all activities in a business are cost except marketing. Marketing is not a cost in his eyes. And I believe if you do it right, then it is not because you're getting clients from marketing, it opens the door to sales. And then it's an investment because you spend it. Say, in my case, if you go on a boat cost tour and you choose the package of 10 boat cost, it only costs $2,400. That's per interview, $2,210. But you're reaching huge amounts of targeted listeners in your wider audience. Well, when you do other advertising and you can and you should, everybody should have several marketing challenges, not the only one. It's a good one for solopreneurs, it's a good one for those who have a business where the marketing story is important because you get 45 minutes a month 30 minutes, right, plenty minutes but you get to talk about your business and your services and you're creating your plan. If you do it over a period of time, so that investment usually comes back really fast because my clients have coaching sessions and they have online courses, they have retreats. It depends also what they want to do. Some people just want to market their book and that's not necessarily bringing the world money, but it's worth it and then after 10 bookings they can choose another 10 after they give me their nice customers, the monos and all this. But many times I get referrals also because when they're really excited about the impact they have and the impact they only have if they have a good that for what their goal is, for what their goal is, so they have also a good marketing fund and a good ecosystem of profitability. Because many of those podcasts shows and you talk about your expertise, the host will ask you at the end. So how can people get in contact with you, how can they relate with you, how can they learn more from you? And then even an email sign up for a future product the waiting list is good or just an email if they're really good, but you have to have something where they connect with you. Many times it's a sophisticated marketing fund. And then I to say shortly I also I understand sometimes when somebody's new to this. They don't want to head away, commit to a 10 interview, a podcast tour. So I offer a free interview experience package and that is for a dozen-price bank.

Jim James: 14:00

Yeah, that's wonderful. It's really flexible and just showing there are some of the testimonials that you've got as well because you really do the heavy lifting and the storytelling for the clients, which saves them a huge amount of time. They get on with what they get paid to do. Joseph, what would you say are some tips that you give your experts before they go on air, because you yourself have been on air a great deal, so you give some counseling. What advice would you give, maybe one or two key tips for your experts before they go on air?

Josef Schinwald: 14:32

Most of my guests don't ask me for that advice because they are so self-confident. They know exactly what they do and you know that some of them. Let's talk about Donna Clifford. She raises billions of dollars for her expertise, which is corporate storytelling, and she knows networking. She found this other book host in Australia and he helped her launch her new book. And then I connected them with this Basil Hawke who is a New York Times guest. I watched the chairman bestie right now because he has such incredible success. He was launching his books and she wrote her first book and she wanted also to have the success she connected them. So they know my experts, they know all the benefits really from this networking and from getting all these audiences and they loved the dog. So I don't usually have to do this and I don't have those kinds of clients usually. But when I have somebody, like in spirituality or like spiritual psychology because I do attack those kinds of clients because of my studies I'm a little bit overstudied. So I like business leadership and spirituality stuff Under spirituality there's a lot of other categories, Even mental health can go in there. Under business leadership, there's a lot of other categories as well, of course. But I sometimes have somebody I really like and they don't have a great website and they don't have a, but they have a great story. They have, let's say, a real nice framework already and expertise, and I know they can help a lot of people, which is my mission, you know, in my business I want to help them get their message out. That is valuable to me to do this in my life. So then I help them and then they ask we talk about, like, the importance of having a silent note in music. So when you're finished talking, then just you just have this silent note and you wait for the host again to talk and then equipment stuff, it's. You know all these things they want to know. I have a little bit of experience in it because, as I said, I was in Buenos Aires 50 times on television. There was a lot of experience there.

Jim James: 16:37

Yeah, joe. So you've had a life full of range as well, which is fascinating. Now you've been building your business. So, as an entrepreneur, I'd like to ask you how have you managed to build guest experts on air From Mallorca? Of course you know so. You're an Austrian who's lived in Latin America, now in Mallorca, getting guests on to podcasts around the world. How are you building your own brand?

Josef Schinwald: 17:03

Well, it started out with this, that I had a lot of fun doing those interviews and I realized the importance of storytelling. I would speak about my expertise besides the thought in universities and three universities about the balance, cork out measurement, business measurement and graphic patterns and profit models hard-core and slavatski, but I had to package it. You can talk like this on television, so I packaged it in the amazing stories of paradigmatic business founders. Let's talk about Phil Knight, who's Nike you know, and you know a lot of those also. So I studied them very well and each time I was on television I talked about how they started out, like, again, phil Knight and Bill Bowerman. They had developed their own shoes for running and they sold them from the station wagon, from the back of the car, and then it became a cult, you know, and all this was a fun, great story, and how it ended up is that incredible value in the stock market? And so I knew that it's important to package my framework and my expertise in really entertaining stories. So I loved interviews and how I prepare myself. I'm Austrian, I do it in Spanish, so I wrote an article. First it went out on the internet and then I, from my assistant. I got it translated in Spanish, then I rehearsed with people from my office and then, with my, christian Dursutz, I took off to the studio. However, this was all so much fun and I did other things. I was a child manager for Hemisphere at the time, but nothing, nothing was better in my life than giving interviews. I felt good before, I felt good afterwards. So when I heard it, when I saw this opportunity podcasting and it's amazing stuff is going on nowadays I mean you can. You can hear experts from all over the world and you would never listen to them if there wouldn't be podcasting interviews. And it's amazing for brands and for experts also who sell books or to position their marketing by creating the branding. So I knew immediately it was attractive to me, it resonated with me, I knew it could be a great mirror for those experts and I'm a seasoned media expert. So for me this became kind of a lifestyle business. I just like to hang out with extraordinary individuals, and so when I did it a few times and I found them easily, I kind of liked I mean we are mirror, we attract sometimes these people which you should attract and you should actually talk to and with each other. So then I just started to organizing myself, the processes and there is a lot always to improve. I do not like to have big explanations of something, I just like to love what I do, and then with the process it's getting better and better and better. You got an email pitch from me and you accepted already many of those and I never went down. Let's say, always start at the top, and that was very important for me also that uniqueness, because people are hungry for interviews from the rather beginners of podcasts and they come and they go and sometimes they go out of business very fast also, but they're always new ones and of course, a very important person who starts a podcast will be rather interesting for me as well, because that podcast has future. But many times it's a waste of time for my clients. So I did this. I could be of value to your audience now.

Jim James: 20:35

Okay, that's wonderful. Now, joseph, I always like to ask one question, which is if there's something that you've done for marketing your business as an entrepreneur that hasn't worked, something that you would suggest people don't try at home without supervision of an adult. But what would that be? Is there anything that you've done with guests experts on air that didn't give you an ROI?

Josef Schinwald: 20:58

Yes, yes, you make your mistakes. You make lots of mistakes Because really, you have to learn quickly, right? I mean you have to adapt quickly. You have to be always with the tools and with the philosophy behind it. You have to be always like a mover, first mover, two steps ahead of everybody else. That's a very important thing that you learn fast because you will make it. So my mistakes was in the beginning. I knew I had to come back to the beginning Because in the beginning I was always very personal. Everything was totally personal the way I reached out to my clients, the way I reached out to the podcast. I was always very interested in the person heart to heart. Later on, I got more people working for me. It became scaling. I wanted to scale. I was kind of influenced by some people that said why you have such a great business idea, you can get such a big business, millions of dollars, whatever. And I wasn't very happy with this because I started to automate too much. I started to become less personal and that was my mistake, actually, which I learned fast from it. So I do it with tools. I use all the tools available. However, I always make sure that every communication is on a heart to heart level with the host and with the editor. That is, for me, the biggest mistake somebody could make in the digital era. Do think that just numbers. We are not numbers, we are people. And you know now it is more and more with AI and with all the things that you can do with software nowadays, it's more and more important. If you want to really have success, I think, and a meaningful business, you have to be saying personal. People want to be treated like a human being, even at the end of the world.

Jim James: 22:50

Well, you know, end of the world. We've got the end of our amazing podcast. If you want to find you, where can they do that?

Josef Schinwald: 22:59

It is my website, which is guestexthirdsonaircom, and it will be in the show notes. But if you repeat it it's even better, because my Austrian accent is sometimes hard to. People make fun of me. Listen, I'm talking like Arnold Schwarzenegger on the phone. It's nice, I can say yes, I do. I also have the same body like him.

Jim James: 23:22

Yes, Just the face is different. Yeah, for those of you listening, I'll let you go to the YouTube to make your own decisions. Joseph, of course we'll have to ask you whether you'll be back later. Thank you so much for joining me today on the Unnoticed Entrepreneur.

Josef Schinwald: 23:38

Thank you, Jim. It was a real pleasure to be here with a person like you, who wrote a book on this topic Unnoticed Entrepreneur and who has a fantastic podcast, and I love this relationship I have with you and it's so important to nurture it and to see this as a long-term relationship. Thank you very much, Jim. It was a wonderful interview. Thank you.

Jim James: 23:59

Thank you so much for the warm words and for plugging the book. I appreciate that, and the book is available in Amazon and also in some bookstores, and the second volume of the Unnoticed Entrepreneur is coming out shortly as well. So, joseph Schindel, thank you so much, and I will put a link to guestexpertsonaircom in the show notes. So you've been listening to Joseph, who's in the rather lovely environs of New York. I'm still here in sunny Wiltshire in the UK and, wherever you are, do encourage you to keep on communicating. If you've enjoyed this show, please do share it with a fellow Unnoticed Entrepreneur and, if you've got the chance, to rate it on the player that you listen to this show. And until we meet again, just God bless and stay safe.