Challenging the Status Quo: Elinor Moshe on Building a Powerful Brand in a Male-Dominated Industry

Speaker 1: 0:23

Hello, welcome to this episode of the Unnoticed Entrepreneurship, or should I say good day, because we're going to Melbourne to meet a lady called the Construction Coach and I know Moshe welcoming you to the show. Thanks for joining us in Melbourne.

Speaker 2: 0:39

My pleasure and privilege to be here and to get to speak on one of the most important aspects of entrepreneurship.

Speaker 1: 0:47

Which is getting noticed, and you've done a brilliant job because you've got bestselling books three of them and you've got your own podcast. You built a brand from a very young age in a male dominated industry. We're going to talk about how you build a brand, but you haven't relied on being a woman in a male industry, so you've been a bit you know, counter there. So tell us about you first, and let's talk about how you've managed to build a brand in quite a male dominated industry, in quite a male dominated country as well. It's not famous for being liberal Australia, is it? So tell us about you.

Speaker 2: 1:25

Defying the status quo and standing out has always been my prerogative, but society is there to tell you otherwise, that you must fit into certain boxes and play certain roles. And for a very long time in my corporate career in construction, I worked hard to diminish myself, to mute myself, to make myself weak, and I got to a point in my career where I was all of that and I had the turning point where I realized this can't be it. There is more that I am here to experience. There is much more that is possible in my own career. And in order to execute that and bring my vision into fruition, I knew that I could not be positioned like the rest, sound like the rest, look like the rest, because I had no aspiration and I still do not have the ambition to achieve the results like the rest. And for me to do that required to take unconventional action in unconventional frontiers. And I did not do it alone. It was through divine intervention that I met my mentor, ron Melhotra, who showed me what the third model of having a career is, which is thought leadership, which we can discuss in continuity. But to pioneer the frontier, which is being Australia's first construction coach, has been an incredible journey and marrying two worlds that I do love, which is construction, and that of building a powerhouse mindset and entrepreneurial skillset.

Speaker 1: 3:04

So articulately put and now you've thrown in a number of things that you've talked about being Australia's first construction coach. And it is interesting because from an entrepreneur and sort of niche perspective, I am going to ask the elephant in the room you didn't say the world's first female coach in construction, which might have been the obvious route to go. Tell us why you haven't done that, because from a positioning point of view you've kind of gone sort of a bit counterintuitive. I'm really interested in why you've done that.

Speaker 2: 3:35

Most people who want to enter into the space and, I guess, serve a female demographic in the industry, how will they position themselves? I help women, I fix women. We've heard it all before. And to go against the mainstream narrative, which I fundamentally do not concur with, because I stopped parroting that narrative early on, in my midway throughout my career I wouldn't say early on and I realized that as soon as I put it down it wasn't serving me. I got to reflect and realize that this narrative is parroting me being a statistic. I have no interest becoming a statistic. I'm here to become an exception, not the rule. And that's what started the journey of realizing look, I don't want to position myself like everyone else because I can't sound like everyone else. If I've heard it before, I've seen it before. And if I was a prospect making a decision between A, b and C, why would I go with someone that feels like I've already know it all? I've heard it all and it was, of course, through the strategic advice of my mentor, who said that if you want to stand out in that arena, you don't go straight into the center of the crowd and start saying your message. You find your own corner, you find your own podium.

Speaker 1: 4:55

That's where you speak from and the right people will come to you, and that's exactly what happened I love that, and you've been sort of, if you like, counter cultural and a lesser mentor would have put you down a more traditional or conventional route. Right, and so that's a credit to your mentor that he had the vision and the insight to give you that guidance. Fantastic. So, eleanor, you decided not to go down the conventional route. Brilliant, you've mentioned thought leadership as your alternative strategy. I'd love for you to share with us what that means and how you've implemented that.

Speaker 2: 5:36

The best definition that I've heard is that of my mentor, ron Melhotra, who is a world-class thought leadership mentor, and that is someone who is known for what they know, because what they know makes a difference. But despite all the good intentions and despite coming with all of us having buckets of talent, if we're not primarily positioned and packaged in a way that provides the message to market match, then you will get lost. You will simply get lost in a crowded market. It was busy when I started and I'm sure, jim, you would agree it's getting noisier now. Everyone you know how do most people come out of the gate in this world. They wake up one morning, change their LinkedIn profile, put a pitch and start spamming people with you know pseudo value and their messages all over the place. They chop and change. They're a chameleon in the marketplace and people fundamentally will not trust chameleons in the marketplace. So, being able to be positioned based on all of who you are and that's why in the thought leadership model of entrepreneurship, there is so much back-end work that happens. It's unseen, it's the shadow work, it's the inner work, because if I don't know who I am, I'm not in a position to put myself out there for you to make a decision if Eleanor is a leader that I would like to get behind, or at least let's see what she has to say. And that's the first part of differentiating, because no one can copy my energetic signature, no one can copy the full alchemy of Eleanor Moshe. They can try, but no one will ever be me in the same instance that no one will ever be Jim James. We might have similarities, we'll have parallels, there might be different aspects which are similar, but the totality of all of us cannot be duplicated. And it was positioning myself in that way, based on this is me first. I don't even have a solution for you, I don't have an offer, I have no program, you don't even know what business I run, but this is me and you can make a decision on that basis. And it is that which is the core of thought leadership and creates a world of opportunity and visibility which I know we will continue talking about.

Speaker 1: 8:09

You mentioned a number of things in there and you also talked about being out there even though you don't know what you're gonna sell or what you're gonna offer, which is a little again counter sort of insuative to the Go and ask people what they want and then build it for them. So how you reconciling again a slightly unconventional actually let's say diametrically opposed view to what people are saying in the marketplace?

Speaker 2: 8:40

You. Right now we're having this conversation, people listening. They don't know what's sweet of products or services. I have the leader resonate with my beliefs, my value, this is what I stand for, my character. Then they'll go and investigate. People fundamentally want to understand that part of you first. They will connect to you on such a deep level. And that's what this model of entrepreneurship affords is to connect to someone's heart set first. Once you have the ability to connect with their heart, not just their intellectual mind, which is you have a problem, I have a solution Then you really start building that community, start building that presence. You start building people. You're nurturing them for a very long time before you even ask Anything of them. And you're right. It is counterintuitive because you start talking about the problems that they're facing. But before anyone would believe that I have a solution, I need to demonstrate that I understand the problem first, after becoming a problems expert first. And I have to know the problem well because I've experienced it all. I've done a man, some out of research. In my case it was both. But then what happens? People start reaching out to you and it's not that I have you know. This is a ready made product which is a program on the shelf. It's okay, jim. What do you need? What is it that is happening in your world? What is the root cause of why that's happening in your world? If I am in a position to mentor you, we can explore what that looks like, but until that point in time, I need to know what you want to achieve, and that's what you Mentioned beforehand. Was having a mental that doesn't put you in a box and sticks a label and then puts you out to market is is imperative. So it is actually quite a different process even of prospecting.

Speaker 1: 10:36

And it does sound also that it's not so much the counter intuitive, is just about the process. It's about which comes first, as though no, by defining yourself and sharing of yourself in an open and genuine way. It's kind of filtering who you attract right and then you're listening to them, as opposed to listening without having established your own authenticity in the market with that. Would that be one way of looking at that?

Speaker 2: 11:06

Definitely. I mean, if everyone you know we're playing a game here, we're all in business. There is, of course, the end aspect of commercialization, but, putting that aside, you want to be building a business with people who not just a business or a community around people who will take value. And this isn't to say that you know. People who don't take value or are diametrically opposed to me shouldn't be in my community, please. I love an intellectual, intellectual spur and and whatnot. But when I put out that I lean more towards being ambitious and I'm not the casual person, then if someone is quite casual and lacks, I'm not your person. Don't come to me, don't waste your time, don't waste my time. We're not, we're not going to get along. I will, you know, I'll say something and you'll be offended, whereas it's more in your best interest, but you won't see it that way. So it is a major filtration process, more in your best interest, but you won't see it that way. So it is a major filtration process, but it is that deep level of authenticity which you're projecting, which you cut yourself out from a sea of sameness and a sea of people who fundamentally don't know themselves. Because to get to know yourself on such a deep energetic level. It's years.

Speaker 1: 12:22

Yeah, and sometimes I wonder whether people either don't know themselves or they're so desperate to fit in, because conformity gets it its rewards as well, doesn't it, eleanor? Eleanor, but you've got many rewards three books, bestsellers, podcast. Tell us about how you've been sort of turning that mindset and that philosophy of thought, leadership and authenticity into tangible products that people can listen, to, watch, pick up and read.

Speaker 2: 12:58

That's. You know what you said there is really. You have to turn into a tangible asset, but that can only be done once you know who you are, what you stand for, who am I serving? Why am I here? What do I have to say? We don't start with the back end of it and look. It happens where, sometimes, yes, people launch a podcast and they've hit the nail on the head, but there are people who launch and they're wondering well, I can't even get to a thousand downloads. Who are you speaking to? What is that major point of differentiation that no one else is speaking about? When I started my podcast this was in March 2020 and I still have the spreadsheet there were 46 construction podcasts, many of which weren't running. The ones that were running were about equipment and rentals and trade, and there were none which focused on the people behind the projects. As soon as I realized I needed to quickly move and also think about the type of guest which I want to interview as well. So it was Selectively put together and it is still one of the longest running podcast. This is in year four, but I've constantly sought to differentiate that even the message. It's a non construction construction podcast and talk to you about concrete, I don't care. I don't talk about precast, that's not my area of expertise. So being able to provide something very different and get into the right space, which is in between people's ears, and deliver that value was a great point of differentiation and I'm very glad I started when I did, because right now it is a much busier Marketplace for for podcasts. But it was an asset which built on to itself and in a time when in Melbourne people were locked down, I know my episodes joined many people on their Sunday morning breakfast or or walks. In terms of the books as well, that's an extension of of me. It's my philosophy. Given to you, sample it, don't buy the whole thing and you can apply this. You never have to even speak to me, but I want to serve you and enable you to have the transformation that I have and putting myself out there in book format, the first being constructing. Your career Was very raw and you know you go through the process until actually of publishing a book and then all of a sudden you're thinking you know someone's actually sitting there and reading, reading this, and one of the best feedback posts that I got was someone came home from work 11 o'clock at night. They finished their shift, they were up to 5am reading, constructing your career and they posted about it on LinkedIn. And they were, you know similar types of feedback where people said this is the book that I wish I had and this is the book I wish I had. And it's done. Immense aspects for visibility, because a look, no one throws out a book be people can sample you before they want to experience you more. And even if that's where our journey respectively ends with a book or a podcast, I'm appreciative that people took the time To choose my books out of all the books that are available. Leadership in construction was one done, taking the essence of leadership principles from real time exemplary leaders and industry Titans in the industry to upgrade the quiet, theoretical and outdated narrative. And that was also a first, because in construction such a such a book hasn't been produced. And then young gun is the crowning jewel.

Speaker 1: 16:37

And so young gun is for the next generation of people in the construction industry. Is that right, the Nelena? So now you're playing a role of bringing in the next generation.

Speaker 2: 16:50

I went back to the construction office after spending years on site and we forget what the office is like and it didn't make sense to me and I saw fragments of this on site didn't make sense that people would coming to the industry and I would know them from before they started Through community events. Whatever the avenue was that have this roaring ambition, I'm going to change the world, I'm going to have it all. And then they get into the industry and they can't even whisper. They was, but they don't even want to be heard. They sit there static and mute in front of their computer. Where did it all go? And that is the, the intensity of mediocrity that they face. Now, if that happens across the board, we can all pack our bags and go home because there will be nothing to show for after all of these inputs In the industry and I realized there is something fundamentally broken in how ambition is diluted and dispersed in the industry. So, protecting and nurturing the ambition and enabling them to speak the language of ambition and achievement is imperative.

Speaker 1: 17:58

Wonderful, and if this is a coaching podcast, I'd love to take you down that track, but you know I'm going to bring you back to the getting notice Because, as valuable as it is what you're doing, I'm really trying to focus on this particular dimension of it. You've created great content. We've got a content machine. Can you share with us how you're doing that? You spending nights up writing, you're doing a dictaphone. Give us the secret to your success, how you constructing your content. I can't believe I'm constructing a content, that's a long to put constructing in here as a pun.

Speaker 2: 18:32

First, I had to come with the mindset piece. People have reservations. What will people say? What will people think? I get feedback loops of professionals in the office who complain about my podcast. If that, not my podcast, my content, she's always online, she's always this. If that's what they're doing during work hours, we have a whole different conversation at hand. First, it's being comfortable from a mindset perspective that you're not. Not everyone is going to agree with you. You're not here to be a vanilla brand. Everyone really likes vanilla, but I hate that. But you're not really going to go out of your way for vanilla. It's okay, I'm not going to remember it, but you will remember that caramel, that you know that that incredible ice cream that you've had is the analogy that my, my mentor, shares, and that's really what content is about. First, it's knowing that I'm not here to serve everyone. I am here to present. This is who I am and I'm here to. I have a duty. I'm duty bound first to change your thoughts to enable you To investigate your own belief system on my given arena, which is careers in construction, but then, from a generation perspective, it does take a bit of time to get your own content machine running. It's like an engine it starts, it stops. Research, reflection of your own thinking and dissecting your own processes and your own experiences and then putting that in Could be carousel format, story format. I record everything, every question that I get asked Eleanor, how do I do this, how do I do that? And I'm having a discovery call, when, when prospects are telling me their pain in their own words, I feed that straight back into a content and you put it with a hook. Do you relate to this? 90% of people in the industry relate to this. So after a while, content actually gets served to you and I have the. You know, we, we package it and we keep on talking about it. Well, we'll, we'll take something that someone says why do they say it? What makes them say it? It's diluting and so not diluting. It's dissecting my own experiences, what's important to me, what's not, and then being able to Generate that in an interesting manner. It's if I don't get engagement, it's not anyone's fault, it's mine. My content to them is not, it's not worthwhile of their attention. We're in the attention market. That's what we're doing with content, and that means planning photo shoots, having curated photo shoots, paying for venues, paying for photographers, paying for graphic designers I use canva a lot and a virtual assistant who who runs. You know a lot of that back-end scheduling. But it is about maintaining Relevancy and this is the thing with content relevancy. But also, in order to to position yourself, you need to be able to talk about your micro niche literally in in 365 different ways, which is one post a day. Times that by two 720 different ways. To speak about your one niche and that's also where I got my positioning from is. There was no confusion as to who Eleanor is, what she does, what she stands for. She's not the women Entrepreneurial coach. She's not many things. This is what she does. But if it wasn't for content, we would not be having this conversation. If it wasn't for content, my bank account would reflect that. If it wasn't for content, even people who will never work with me Come to an event, no problem. But if they've taken value from anything I've produced and that's seeded even a different thought Even if that seed will only flourish in five years time Then it's important to to have produced that piece of content.

Speaker 1: 22:24

I know that's wonderful. You know I've got to start to wrap us up now. One thing that you would say hasn't worked. One piece of advice about what not to do as an entrepreneur when it comes to visibility.

Speaker 2: 22:38

To not be consistent. I know people have heard that before but to show up online Regardless of your emotional state. Your audience doesn't care if you're having a bad day, they don't care if you're having a spiritual awakening or a breakthrough or a breakdown. You made them a promise and you are duty bound as a leader to serve, and if you do not show up and Deliver on that, they're going to go somewhere else and that's not on them, that is on you. Of course, there are many mistakes, which is a whole other topic onto itself, but playing a short-term game is where people fall over. They want to get the benefits that come with visibility. Be prepared to play a seven to ten year game.

Speaker 1: 23:20

And a motion. Thank you so much for playing well at 20 minutes With me to explain a huge amount of content and ideas. If you want to find out more about you, how can they do that?

Speaker 2: 23:33

I'm Eleanor Marsha on LinkedIn and the Eleanor Marsha on Instagram.

Speaker 1: 23:39

Wonderful, and we've also, of course, going to put Eleanor's details in the show notes, as always. Eleanor, thank you so much for joining and constructing. I've got to keep using that, somehow Constructing with me a fantastic conversation today about getting noticed.

Speaker 2: 23:53

My pleasure and privilege. More visibility to everyone involved.

Speaker 1: 23:56

Absolutely, and you've heard from Eleanor how to do that through thought leadership being a little bit counterintuitive but then being entirely authentic and consistent with that message and yourself. So thank you so much for listening to this episode of the unnoticed entrepreneur with me here, jim James and Eleanor Melbourne, australia, and if you've enjoyed it, do please share this with a fellow entrepreneur and Rate and review the show on the player of your choice. It really, really helps. And to a meet again, just encourage you, keep on communicating. Thanks for listening you.